Will minimum wage laws work here?

[sizzy6]

doesn't make sense though... if a company is looking for a cleaner, foreign worker no min wage vs local worker min wage, of course they'll choose to hire foreigners

unless of course you are suggesting even more red tapes (like Levy etc. to further discourage hiring of cheaper labor), that will stifle the local businesses even further, especially on construction and cleaning industries

they only reason they hire sinkie is because no more quota

dont tell me there are companies who prefer to hire sinkies over fw because no min wage... and then they turn to fw because of min wage.

 

[blurblur123]

if got minimum wage, PAP IB will not be asking for $1 per post liao.

so obviously cannot.

 

[Mebeater]

I think you confuse politics with a company's profits.

Implementing the minimum wage will likely translate to more cost for companies. Whether they want to pass on the cost though is entirely up to them.The last time I checked. prices did not lower when we imported 2 million foreigners, which mean the cost savings then were not passed to consumers. I dont see how cost increases now can be passed on the consumers unless the ruling party is encouraging companies to privatise the profits and socialise the cost.

This just means that the benefits of the lower costs are passed on to someone. Guess who.

Just because cost savings were not passed on to consumers doesn't mean that the inverse has to follow suit. Increased costs can still be passed on to consumers. Why would these companies not want to pass on the costs, unless there are incentives for them not to do so?

 

[ponpokku]

We are all talking about minimum wage for Singaporeans. Seems like those who talk about min wage for FW are derailing this conversation.

The main purpose of the minimum wage is to ensure that Singaporeans earn a living wage and do not go into poverty. It is unfair to ask Singaporeans to compete with foreigners in terms of wages when we have a family of Singaporeans to upkeep while the foreigner earns SGD and uses it to support his family living in some backawater village in China, India, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines.

which ish why u need to extend it to all including FW. bring them up to sg standards and compete, not making sinkie go down to their lvl, becos sinkies can never be down to their lvl. u cant fight bolehland 3:1 or tiongs 5:1, they will always settle for lower wages to outdo u.

once u got a blanket min wage, then the ground ish levelled. if u are a coy owner and there ish a sinkie who ish born and breed here, understand the local situation, vs a tiong or **** who just arrived and cant speak local languages? u pay both the same min wage, but u still got to pay extra for levies and lodgings for the tiong or ****?

if u are the boss, which one u choose? the choice ish pretty clear.

this ish why min wage need to cover all. including FW, make them compete at sg lvl, not their 3:1 or 5:1 lvl.

 

[alibababags]

Repeating what I said in the other thread:

Minimum wage would NOT benefit locals at all
It will primarily benefit those low-wage temp migrant workers...
How many of us here earn <= $1.2k?

Unless... you raise the min wage to ridiculously high level, in which case, businesses will collapse, then unemployment will skyrocket too

if i'm not wrong company needs to pay a certain levy if hiring FW.

comparing 1.3k local vs 1.3k + addons FW, purely looking from a numbers perspective, i will take local.

 

[razorlala]

Iirc minimum wage is alrdy applied to several specific industries.

Cleaner is 1 of em.

 

[ponpokku]

I think you confuse politics with a company's profits.

Implementing the minimum wage will likely translate to more cost for companies. Whether they want to pass on the cost though is entirely up to them.The last time I checked. prices did not lower when we imported 2 million foreigners, which mean the cost savings then were not passed to consumers. I dont see how cost increases now can be passed on the consumers unless the ruling party is encouraging companies to privatise the profits and socialise the cost.

in any working market economy, u can safely assume that costs will be passed to consumers in most cases, unless the coy ish really (i mean really, not just self-proclaim to be) a social enterprise.

but the cost will not be proportionate to the increase in wages. it will be at a much lower scale, technically speaking.

 

[alibababags]

Iirc minimum wage is alrdy applied to several specific industries.

Cleaner is 1 of em.

it's progressive wage model, not minimum wage.

 

[GameTheory]

they only reason they hire sinkie is because no more quota

dont tell me there are companies who prefer to hire sinkies over fw because no min wage... and then they turn to fw because of min wage.

companies hire FW due to supply available at low wage, there is simply insufficient supply of Locals at X wage for Y job.
(sad but it's a fact, just like how Qatar and Emirates uses cheap labour from neighbouring country to build their stadiums)

e.g. if SG companies need 5,000 construction workers, how to find that amount of locals that are willing to accept the role at <2k per month? working under hot sun, dirty and dangerous

 

[mocax]

upskill to what? advanced cleaner?

 

[Xiaomehmeh]

Reduce number of ep quota and set a rule management role minimum 50 percent filled by local. Demand and supply

 

[ponpokku]

thats why got quota to control so you cannot fire the sinkie and hire 100% fw to save cost mah

right now companies will hire fw if they can anyway.. no loss to locals with or without min wage

not like they will prefer to hire sinkie if there is no min wage in place.

broad based min wage might not work in sg society because all selfish esp the middle class. can buy car buy house go holiday buy kopi increase 10 cents they kpkb.

gov increase this and that but they v happy vote also

nope, it's not becos of quotas but costs. coys dun care about quotas unless it ish forced onto them, with punishable consequences if they dun follow.

say a local sinkie cost $10, no levies.
then a FW cost $7, levies $1, lodgings $1, total $9, boss still gets to keep $1. compared to hiring locals.
if u are boss u wanna employ who? of cos the FW, and govt oso happy becos collect levies. only sinkies lugi.

but if u blanket the min wage, whats the situation?
local sinkies cost $12, no levies.
FW now cost $12, levies $1, lodgings $1, total $14.
now if u are boss, which one u employ?

min wage, and only blanket min wage, makes FW lugi instead of locals lugi.

 

[sizzy6]

companies hire FW due to supply available at low wage, there is simply insufficient supply of Locals at X wage for Y job.
(sad but it's a fact, just like how Qatar and Emirates uses cheap labour from neighbouring country to build their stadiums)

e.g. if SG companies need 5,000 construction workers, how to find that amount of locals that are willing to accept the role at <2k per month? working under hot sun, dirty and dangerous

still does not change the fact they will hire fw first. if dont have then hire sinkie. these jobs are not for sinkies anhway.. with or without min wage

name me 1 construction company that hires sinkies as majority and below min wage.

the fact is.. even if you have a few of such sinkie worker.. the increase is so insignificant to justify increase in cost. or you mean because you pay 300 more for each worker to meet min wage now you have to bid 20k more for each project?

 

[vivalarave]

i feel the minimum wage was a populist move and will not be actively enforced or taken into consideration.

Im all for paying employees a decent wage however government mandate of market forces should dictated the "minimum wage" with demand and supply with comprehensive employment laws.

progressive wage is a good policy to allow workers to upskill and reward employees to take on more responsibilities and improve productivity.

If Singaporeans want to reduce foreign talents then locals themselves need to step up and do more.

Posted from PCWX using I am not under oath, so I may not be accurate.

 

[megdang]

if i'm not wrong company needs to pay a certain levy if hiring FW.

comparing 1.3k local vs 1.3k + addons FW, purely looking from a numbers perspective, i will take local.

What if currently the business has 3 staffs and pay 800/each, that means total salary is 2.4k/month. Then the min wage 1.3k apply, what would the business owner do?

Most likely he would fire 1 and only keep 2 with the new total salary is 2.6k/month and ask them to work harder with the new salary to cover the work of 3.

Then the guy were fired will become jobless which is even worst.

 

[GameTheory]

i feel the minimum wage was a populist move and will not be actively enforced or taken into consideration.

Im all for paying employees a decent wage however government mandate of market forces should dictated the "minimum wage" with demand and supply with comprehensive employment laws.

progressive wage is a good policy to allow workers to upskill and reward employees to take on more responsibilities and improve productivity.

If Singaporeans want to reduce foreign talents then locals themselves need to step up and do more.

Posted from PCWX using I am not under oath, so I may not be accurate.

automation is key, this will eventually result in the reduction of low skilled workers needed in the country

 

[jeffprobst]

ib really been hitting hard on wp ever since concluding the election. their master still got theandate what. kp simi.

 

[sizzy6]

nope, it's not becos of quotas but costs. coys dun care about quotas unless it ish forced onto them, with punishable consequences if they dun follow.

say a local sinkie cost $10, no levies.
then a FW cost $7, levies $1, lodgings $1, total $9, boss still gets to keep $1. compared to hiring locals.
if u are boss u wanna employ who? of cos the FW, and govt oso happy becos collect levies. only sinkies lugi.

but if u blanket the min wage, whats the situation?
local sinkies cost $12, no levies.
FW now cost $12, levies $1, lodgings $1, total $14.
now if u are boss, which one u employ?

min wage, and only blanket min wage, makes FW lugi instead of locals lugi.

the reason why need fw is for jobs sinkie not doing and they are cheaper.

unless the min wage is set to really high like 3k.. sinkie wont work in certain sector

the thing is.. no job loss for sinkie even with min wage.. because companies cant do that with current quota.

 

[The_Davis]

So if nsf can survive on allowance of $600 does it mean everyone else also can?

 

[tamago_]

imagine a kopitam can sell food very cheap cause they pay peanuts to the cleaner aunty. but if they need to pay cleaner aunty more money then they will need to raise the price of food.

think about it. that means the only reason the food is so cheap is because they are exploiting the aunty. while all your rich ppl and middle income ppl are enjoying cheap food, the poor cleaning aunty needs to work long hours just to earn a pitiful amount. it is only cheap because the cleaner aunty is subsidizing the cost with her cheap labour.

so let's say we pay her minimum wage. how much can it cost the company? remember she's already earning MINIMUM. NOBODY earns less than the cleaner aunty.

let's say the price goes up because kopitiam needs to pay cleaner aunty more. if business is not affected, then clearly singaporeans are rich enough anyway for it to not matter. shouldn't we redistribute our income for it to be fairer?

if the price goes up and business suffers, then clearly the business model got problem to begin with. then it's time for the business to figure out how to cut costs and figure out the other inefficiencies. don't tell me a business will suddenly fail because you cannot exploit cheap workers anymore.

all in all, the worst case scenario is usually, the rich ppl earn less money that's all. who the fug cares about them?

Jamus has said it too. Prices would go up.