Advice for new machine

[mike911]

HyperX comes with a spreader, the aluminium plating.

It helps in dissipating heat. That is all it does other than aesthetics.

R4 isnt small. Among all the chassis you chose. The smallest is 350D.

Okays, That's settled. Left SSD to verify.

True that R4 is huge, but at least it offers more 3.5" disk sleds (in case I need, now dont need yet), and doesn't look so bad when installing 5.25" bays. I saw alot of build logs in overclock.net, those whom installed bays seems to spoil the clean look.

Maybe I can diy a similar "hotswap" bay out of the 2 3.5" at the bottom of the case.

Was hopping to wait awhile to see any new upcoming cases and gtx760 promo, this Dec.

 

[BlackSmokeInTheSky]

while 1440p is absolutely gorgeous, i find it taxing on the graphics card for gaming, and i'd need a $500+ range graphic card to satisfy my need for high graphic settings .

also, 720p and even 1080p content dont look as good as it can on my 1440p monitor when compared to my 1080p tv. I'd say get the 24 inch dell instead if ur ok with the slighly smaller screen

 

[mike911]

while 1440p is absolutely gorgeous, i find it taxing on the graphics card for gaming, and i'd need a $500+ range graphic card to satisfy my need for high graphic settings .

also, 720p and even 1080p content dont look as good as it can on my 1440p monitor when compared to my 1080p tv. I'd say get the 24 inch dell instead if ur ok with the slighly smaller screen

Hey man, havent seen you in awhile.

I really wanted to try the 1440p panels for myself @ sls/it shows. But most of the displays are on splitters and they are cant unplug their system to demo to me. I'm also slightly concerned with the reduced size of the content due to the ultra high resolution.

What I have in mind, for 1440p is only for the following use. It may sounds abit overkill for 1440p (Minus the korean panels) but I really like the work resolution estate. There is nothing wrong with 1200p I believe in chit-chat thread, I've mentioned countless times how much I've liked the 16:10 ratio as I prefer some black bars during 720p/1080p video in full screen and how correct looking the rectangle a monitor should be. Its huge also compared to what I have now.

- Don't really need High-end settings, if 1440p cannot run well, I'll tune down to 1080p should it be so.
- Occasional Short term casual gaming, i.e. MineCraft, CoD, GTA, ETS2 Sim, FPS, MMO, etc. perhaps once/twice in a week. (I've stopped spending time on games since NS days, cause my notebook doesn't game well on a 4-5 yr mobile quadro card. Have been leverageing on my brother's machine to play a little when he's not around. As I have started working, I'll dont have much time on daily basis, which explains the last few main uses below)
- Need a system with "some" sata ports, to manage my spare disks to update data on my NAS. Which i need alot of screen space to work with. Unless I built a 2nd NAS.
- Watch mainly 720p cartoons
- Daily Machine, to surf net, check mails, watch live game streams


I've listened to many recommendations from both parties, on how good 1440p is. And some who know my real-life style commented that I don't really need the hardcore gaming rig and I should focus on just a daily PC to retire my notebook, since I'm yearning for my own PC since P5?

 

[BlackSmokeInTheSky]

Oic.. if ur not into AAA gaming than that 1440p monitor is a good investment. 1440p aboslutely blew my mind especially since I came from a 22 inch dell

 

[mike911]

Oic.. if ur not into AAA gaming than that 1440p monitor is a good investment. 1440p aboslutely blew my mind especially since I came from a 22 inch dell

yup defintely. Which is why I'm kind of torn between them.

 

[mike911]

Looking at the cases of u2713hm, I might give that up.
Anyway is it worth to wait for gtx760 to drop in pricing sometime in dec? (Although there are no reports for gtx760 now) Or just take and keep the R9 280x. (I was kind of anxious when I see it has quite a bump in power draw compared to gtx760)

 

[royfrosty]

Looking at the cases of u2713hm, I might give that up.
Anyway is it worth to wait for gtx760 to drop in pricing sometime in dec? (Although there are no reports for gtx760 now) Or just take and keep the R9 280x. (I was kind of anxious when I see it has quite a bump in power draw compared to gtx760)

If it is value for money concern then r9 280x is the way to go.

If you wanna save some money if you think is uneccessary to spend more. Go ahead with the gtx760. Cause judging from what I see,, u would say gtx760 may not drop much in price. Cause r9 280 has not been launch. Giving this gtx760 no competition with it. Giving the r9 270x 7950 are still slower than the gtx760.

 

[mike911]

If it is value for money concern then r9 280x is the way to go.

If you wanna save some money if you think is uneccessary to spend more. Go ahead with the gtx760. Cause judging from what I see,, u would say gtx760 may not drop much in price. Cause r9 280 has not been launch. Giving this gtx760 no competition with it. Giving the r9 270x 7950 are still slower than the gtx760.

Looks like the R9 280x keeps waving at me, no matter where I turn to. Anyways, I'm only looking at msi gpu's because of the the neater design. Looking at my usage and that it lives long enough, I believe it should hold the games for quite sometime.

The mnc promo with the 600w PSU, actually a 500w PSU is good enough for the 280x right, just that it will be additional headroom?

 

[Maeda_Toshiie]

Looks like the R9 280x keeps waving at me, no matter where I turn to. Anyways, I'm only looking at msi gpu's because of the the neater design. Looking at my usage and that it lives long enough, I believe it should hold the games for quite sometime.

The mnc promo with the 600w PSU, actually a 500w PSU is good enough for the 280x right, just that it will be additional headroom?

A good quality 500W PSU is enough, unless you are OCing.

The recommendations on those websites are about a$$ covering because people buy 1000W PSUs that cost $30 at Walmart.

 

[royfrosty]

The mnc promo with the 600w PSU, actually a 500w PSU is good enough for the 280x right, just that it will be additional headroom?

500w should be enough. Unless like what maeda was saying. Unless you OC then you will need to get 600w.

But nevertheless the 600w promo on mnc is good enough. Giving you extra overhead. Plus that price is almost as good as a 500w bronze psu price. So i would say that the 600w gold is way much better deal.

 

[mike911]

A good quality 500W PSU is enough, unless you are OCing.

The recommendations on those websites are about a$$ covering because people buy 1000W PSUs that cost $30 at Walmart.

Okays, Thanks Maeda. Alright, hahas, didnt expect them to be priced so low in us sites haha. But it will end up in "waste" of energy right? Or the waste of energy is related to the efficiency rating of the PSU.

500w should be enough. Unless like what maeda was saying. Unless you OC then you will need to get 600w.

But nevertheless the 600w promo on mnc is good enough. Giving you extra overhead. Plus that price is almost as good as a 500w bronze psu price. So i would say that the 600w gold is way much better deal.

Okays, anyways dont think the 4570 allows OC. Except for the bclk. But well Gold + 600w sure be useful should should the system migrates.

I might be choosing the following cases, since they appeared at a lower price point and a catchy look. But I have to sacrifice 1x PCI slot from the 350D.

- Fractal Define Design Mini, Arc Mini R2
- And maybe Design R4 if i can pshyco myself that I will upgrade somehow in future which is unlikely, and get 2x 2.0 usb and 2x 3.0 usb. Since linus mentioned that its useful when certain devices have compatibility problems.

I find the Arc Mini R2 quite a good deal, with 3x Fans included. But the exception that the front of the case the dust filter is integrated with the wire mesh. Which might not be a good idea in the long run.

 

[mike911]

Hi Guys, Have refreshed the first post and gave my honest thoughts as I've could, hope its gives myself a clearer objective to complete.

Now I have a few items to consider.

1. Is the rig specs overkill for my needs? I know we discussed about itx before, but would a basic mini-itx be cheaper overall? Or only the mobo and casing will offset each other while the remaining balance is the same.
2. SSD Choice, To get the amazon Intel 530, or Local crucial/plextor/samsung 120gb ssd?
3. Casing Choice, uncertain if what linus meant about having front usb 2.0 is useful for backwards compatibility. And to have the clean look of the Define Series while keeping airflow in mind. The Arc Mini R2 looks clean too, but the filters might not be a good idea to wash them.
4. GPU Choice, Either to get R9 280x, or gtx760 when prices drop. Or wait for further upcoming promos.
5. PSU Check, Other than SF HX series, any other PSUs to recommend that has neater cables/connectors?
6. Intel/AMD CPU, is there an announced next gen CPUs worth waiting for?
7. Local Year End Deals, Worth the wait as we wont even know what/when there will be on promo?

 

[shadow84]

Hi Guys, Have refreshed the first post and gave my honest thoughts as I've could, hope its gives myself a clearer objective to complete.

Now I have a few items to consider.

1. Is the rig specs overkill for my needs? I know we discussed about itx before, but would a basic mini-itx be cheaper overall? Or only the mobo and casing will offset each other while the remaining balance is the same.
2. SSD Choice, To get the amazon Intel 530, or Local crucial/plextor/samsung 120gb ssd?
3. Casing Choice, uncertain if what linus meant about having front usb 2.0 is useful for backwards compatibility. And to have the clean look of the Define Series while keeping airflow in mind. The Arc Mini R2 looks clean too, but the filters might not be a good idea to wash them.
4. GPU Choice, Either to get R9 280x, or gtx760 when prices drop. Or wait for further upcoming promos.
5. PSU Check, Other than SF HX series, any other PSUs to recommend that has neater cables/connectors?
6. Intel/AMD CPU, is there an announced next gen CPUs worth waiting for?
7. Local Year End Deals, Worth the wait as we wont even know what/when there will be on promo?

1. The specs look good. mATX offers more versality as compared to ITX, and it is cheaper as well.

2. If you are aiming for for 256gb ssd, intel 530 would be a good choice. If it is a 128gb, local prices and amazon prices aint far apart, less than $10 difference.

3. U mean USB3.0? USB3.0 is backwards compatible with USB2.0. Arc mini r2 is a good case with WC capabilities. Filters can be washed, but may need time to dry out. Or you could get a blower to dry it or blow out dust. But, one thing is that the filter can be removed seperately and easily.

4. 760 isnt confirmed to drop in price yet, so best is to get r9 280x since it is compareable to gtx 770 and just slightly more ex than 760. Value-worth?

5. You can try seasonic m12ii. But both are semi-modular. or u can try corsair RM 650w.

6. Dun need wait for new CPU, not much improvement. Even ivy bridge isnt much of a difference as compared to haswell. Just get the latest for now will do. Im sure it will last at least 2-3 yrs before you can consider changing it.

7. You wun know what items will be in promo or whether the item that you want will be in promo. Suggest to just get it now.

 

[mike911]

Thanks for the quick response. My comments in blue color.

1. The specs look good. mATX offers more versality as compared to ITX, and it is cheaper as well.
I forgot to mention, I don't need full AA, etc. So I assumed it should be able to handle 1200p/1440p for quite sometime, as previously discussed.
mATX offers the additional slots, but other than 350D Case, I cant seem to find a 5th slot for PCI-E GPU slot. So I'm not sure if it would be abit not useful. Although that slot can be used for 1x/4x single slot cards.


2. If you are aiming for for 256gb ssd, intel 530 would be a good choice. If it is a 128gb, local prices and amazon prices aint far apart, less than $10 difference.
Okays, will try to see if I can fit the budget in for the 530. Not sure if Black Friday will have any major diff, and if the price will go back up.
If its Local Drives, any particular to recommend crucial m500, samsung evo 840, or plextor m5p?


3. U mean USB3.0? USB3.0 is backwards compatible with USB2.0. Arc mini r2 is a good case with WC capabilities. Filters can be washed, but may need time to dry out. Or you could get a blower to dry it or blow out dust. But, one thing is that the filter can be removed seperately and easily.
Yes, I happened to chanced on Linus video where a USB3.0 port is not compatible with some USB2.0 connectors giving blue screen, etc.
Yea, the filter is the main worry as it is an integrated panel component which if damaged, means overalls of the case is done for. Where the Define series came as a backup choice.

4. 760 isnt confirmed to drop in price yet, so best is to get r9 280x since it is compareable to gtx 770 and just slightly more ex than 760. Value-worth?
Yup definitely more value worth which roy explained to me. Only slight concern i have now is that the 280x consumes much more power than gtx760. But to think back, I'm comparing with the wrong class of gtx.

5. You can try seasonic m12ii. But both are semi-modular. or u can try corsair RM 650w.
I have a seasonic m12ii 520w, very neat. Will take a quick look at Corsair variant

6. Dun need wait for new CPU, not much improvement. Even ivy bridge isnt much of a difference as compared to haswell. Just get the latest for now will do. Im sure it will last at least 2-3 yrs before you can consider changing it.
Okays understood, I was seeing the "tick, tock" about processors, which led me to think that the next upcoming should be the improvement of die size and performance

7. You wun know what items will be in promo or whether the item that you want will be in promo. Suggest to just get it now.
Yea, this is one of the main concern stirring in my head. Will try to go for it once ready.

 

[shadow84]

Thanks for the quick response. My comments in blue color.

1. If you are not going for x-fire/SLI, the 5th pci slot on chassis isnt a concern for u. The top 2 will be taken by GPU, so you are left with 2 more for soundcard, wireless card, etc.

2. Either one of the 3 u mentioned are fine. Would personally go for plextor m5p extreme(must be extreme since they are phasing out the M5pro), m500 den samsung evo. But take note of price.

3. Most usb3.0 are backwards compatible. Could be driver issues or thumbdrive, etc issues. I have no problem connecting usb2.0 devices into my front and rear usb3.0 ports.

4. 280x consumes more power than 760, but nt worlds apart. A 550w-650w is more than adequate, even with CPU OC. If you are gaming 1440p, it would be good to go for 280x as it has 3GB VRAM.

7. You can wait for yr end/christmas promo, may or may not have what you want. It's up to you.

 

[mike911]

My thoughts in Blue Color.
So generally, if I were to stick with 1200p. I get more other "wants" and GPU probably should be able to stretch further. Likewise, I'll get no more "wants" but enjoy a larger panel.

1. If you are not going for x-fire/SLI, the 5th pci slot on chassis isnt a concern for u. The top 2 will be taken by GPU, so you are left with 2 more for soundcard, wireless card, etc.
True, just trying to keep in mind. In case 1 fine day I just need it. But its probably 90-95% no due to psu and cost. Was also considering between a full fledged casing that can be kept for long, generally ready in space. As most of the stuff I touch tends to rust quickly.

2. Either one of the 3 u mentioned are fine. Would personally go for plextor m5p extreme(must be extreme since they are phasing out the M5pro), m500 den samsung evo. But take note of price.
Opps, okays will take note. But just to confirm, of all 3 SSDs + intel wise, its just benchmarks that makes them different right? More or less day to day use is still generally the same?

3. Most usb3.0 are backwards compatible. Could be driver issues or thumbdrive, etc issues. I have no problem connecting usb2.0 devices into my front and rear usb3.0 ports.
I see, okays can. Was thinking of taking the R4 since it had both options.

4. 280x consumes more power than 760, but nt worlds apart. A 550w-650w is more than adequate, even with CPU OC. If you are gaming 1440p, it would be good to go for 280x as it has 3GB VRAM.
Was looking at the benchmarks, was about 70watt greater during load. Also I've kind of noticed that AMD cards tend to use more power then nvidia cards. Yup, roger on the 3GB VRAM for 1440p

7. You can wait for yr end/christmas promo, may or may not have what you want. It's up to you.
Hmm okays, I'll think I'll just wait for black friday deals for the intel SSD. Plus will be busy coming week. Probably get during 1st week of Dec.

 

[Maeda_Toshiie]

Okays, Thanks Maeda. Alright, hahas, didnt expect them to be priced so low in us sites haha. But it will end up in "waste" of energy right? Or the waste of energy is related to the efficiency rating of the PSU.

My comment on the $30 PSUs refer to those cheap, no name types that are labelled with a high wattage that the design is actually only capable of supply about half of it reliably, let alone for a few years. Alternatively, there are still some PSUs of old designs that are based on the old (now superseded) Intel ATX specifications where a significant part of the wattage is supplied to the +5V rail(s), instead of the +12V in modern systems. Good modern PSUs can supply >>80% (as much as 99%) of their wattage on the +12V rail(s). Note however that the converse is not automatically true.

The problem with these low end PSUs is that it causes many unknowing consumers to drastically oversize their PSU in response, be it buying low end or high end PSUs (most average consumers do not know the quality difference between them, and some actually buy based on "bling").

As for PSU efficiency, a good quality unit with an efficiency rating is recommended. In addition, not overly excessively oversized PSU is also good for efficiency, due to the shape of the efficiency curve.

With regards to PSU sizing, some of us use the TDP for estimation, followed by adding a safety margin. However, the TDP figures given by Nvidia and AMD seem to be somewhat different in terms of definition.

As for full modular, semi-modular, and non-modular, a good (and well sized chassis) has space for hiding the cables such that semi-modular is not really necessary.


For VRAM, some modern games can be insane in terms of VRAM usage even at 1080. In addition, effective VRAM usage requires sufficient VRAM bandwidth (according to the [H] crowd, at least).


For SLI/CrossfireX, note that it can get pretty hot for both cards, though the upper card tends to get hotter than the lower one.

 

[mike911]

My comment on the $30 PSUs refer to those cheap, no name types that are labelled with a high wattage that the design is actually only capable of supply about half of it reliably, let alone for a few years. Alternatively, there are still some PSUs of old designs that are based on the old (now superseded) Intel ATX specifications where a significant part of the wattage is supplied to the +5V rail(s), instead of the +12V in modern systems. Good modern PSUs can supply >>80% (as much as 99%) of their wattage on the +12V rail(s). Note however that the converse is not automatically true.

The problem with these low end PSUs is that it causes many unknowing consumers to drastically oversize their PSU in response, be it buying low end or high end PSUs (most average consumers do not know the quality difference between them, and some actually buy based on "bling").

As for PSU efficiency, a good quality unit with an efficiency rating is recommended. In addition, not overly excessively oversized PSU is also good for efficiency, due to the shape of the efficiency curve.

With regards to PSU sizing, some of us use the TDP for estimation, followed by adding a safety margin. However, the TDP figures given by Nvidia and AMD seem to be somewhat different in terms of definition.

As for full modular, semi-modular, and non-modular, a good (and well sized chassis) has space for hiding the cables such that semi-modular is not really necessary.


For VRAM, some modern games can be insane in terms of VRAM usage even at 1080. In addition, effective VRAM usage requires sufficient VRAM bandwidth (according to the [H] crowd, at least).


For SLI/CrossfireX, note that it can get pretty hot for both cards, though the upper card tends to get hotter than the lower one.

To get my understanding right, based on the above

1. Even if I were to get non-modular its still ok, As cables can be hidden. Of course only if the case allows. Otherwise it will be stuffed in front. I happen to see the new Seasonic PSU non-modular, which had the flat cable design. Although its slightly more on the ex-side.

2. Regards to the efficiency curve, I've seen many reviewers using the kill-a-watt meter. Which usually shows the System power consumption. Take example 1 I saw earlier on, 3770k OC + gtx680 which only consumes 350w max cpu+gpu load.
So can we use this approximation to estimate the power we require? Seems that even a good efficiency 430w/500w should be able to handle and energy is also effectively used.

3. Okays, understand about the VRAM. Probably is unavoidable unless I know the exact game I'll be playing and it requires drastic amount of of vram.

4. Roger on the sli/xfire. I'm kind of concerned with the power usage. To me I think its mostly cool for benchmarks, and sometimes value for money compared to premium cards. But ultimately still prefer single card solution.

 

[Maeda_Toshiie]

1. You mean the S12G? I have not seen any reviews (usual haunts: HWS, JG, [H]), but it seems to be a non modular version of the G series. You pay for Gold Efficiency PSU, and usually better components. It is not comparable to the X series, so no Sanyo Denki fan, probably a Yate Loon (same as G series) which is still respectable.

Cable management helps with air flow, but beyond a certain point, it becomes more of the looks (when you have a side window) than anything else.

2. If the components draw 300W, the PSU will draw 300W divided by the efficiency, which gives a higher value. I presume the reviewers do that mathematics to show it.

Note that the PSU draws only what is needed.

You will want some headroom for the PSU. Engineers do that all the time. Plus, the power draw can vary for different applications. You don't run a power virus or coin mining rig, but it doesn't hurt to have the maximum component power draw (fans, hdd, mobo, everything included) to be about 70-80% of your PSU wattage.

Finally, note that the wattage of PSUs is rated at a particular operating temperature, and increasing operating temperatures will reduce the maximum output that the PSU can achieve.

Of course, good quality PSUs are overengineered to be capable of supplying more than the stated wattage so that they can easily last the warranty period. This is helped by high quality components (esp. fan and caps).

4. Microstutter is not something that is completely eliminated to date (based on user comments), but it can dependent on personal physical attributes (ie eyes). It is not as bad as before. Even right now, single GPUs are fine for single monitor setups, unless you demand >60fps (or worse, 120fps) all the time.

 

[mike911]

1. Yup. Saw 1 review only from kitguru. Yes unfortunately its fully non-modular. But i kind of noticed the flat ribbon cabling used and full black connectors. Kinda cleaner and neater than the imcomplete SF HX Sleeving with mixture of red and blue connectors. But not that drastic until I cannot live with it. Fans wise I'm pretty much ok, the existing seasonic I dont even think i heard anything from it. (partly overwhelmed by the delta fan from the cpu)
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/h...ld-standard-launch-prices-inside-4456065.html

I will try my best on the cable management, had a hard time with the other cm 370. tried to tuck all behind but still have excess flowing out.

2. Understand that PSU draws what its needed. Actually it can also do more than rated, but its not good. I had the assumption that the rated TDP is abit too excessive that actually 500w is more than enough. But as reminded, its best to not skim on PSUs. Its the most crucial precious component after all.

4. Microstutter wise, that is probably a sign to lower graphic settings should 1 requires min 60fps. Understand that its not a resolved solution, similar to tearing. Yes I may be a picky person at minor stuff, but after living with "lag" gameplays for so long, abit wont hurt. But of course not to the point that it shutters that badly that it felt like an old machine, wouldnt it defeat the purpose of getting a new machine. =.=

Anyways, I'm still torn apart about the 16:10 1200p or 16:9 1440p. Its 350++ apart, and after listening quite a no. of complaints and good news about the 2713hm. Still having mixed feelings.