An ICE enthusiast thread

[Shutterbox]

guys,
if new car comes with HU, and I want to get better audio setup (speakers+amp) just need to get installer to get to audio out from the HU to the amp + speakers installation?

eg, a set up like this:
Audison APK 165 2-Way Component Speakers (With Audison APX 6.5 2-Way Coaxial Speakers & Audison AP4.9 bit 4-Ch Amplifier).
Can just connect to the HU audio output?

 

[Shutterbox]

Hi Everyone!

i have just upgraded by stock audio to the following on my Forester:

Pioneer Z9150BT
Micro P 2-way 5 Series (stock position)
Mosconi Gladen One A/B amp 130.4 - 130w/channel 4ohm
2 front door 2layer soundproof
active sub Venom brand
speaker cabling no change
Free rca cable dunno what brand

i intend to upgrade to:

1)Add Micro P 5.8 wide midrange speaker
2)Add Tweeter pod style or A pillar customs for both tweeter and Midrange
3)Trunk floor soundproof and 2 read door soundproof
4)Replace rear coaxial speakers.
5) Add DSP and 2 channel amp for upgrade to 3-way


I find that the Tchernov cables quite expensive. (eg. 16awg standard 1 SC $7.50/metre, 14awg standard 2 SC $15/metre)

A) I am thinking i could get the cheaper Beldens/Canares/Monoprice for this lower -mid priced setup since Micro P series 5 is not really high end. Any comments?

B) What other Brand RCA and speaker cables do anyone recommend? (similar or slightly higher price to Tchernov is ok). Will Van Den Hul be overkill? haha

Many installer keep saying rear coaxial speaker no need because we listen from the front or just "luap" a basic ones at least better than stock ones.
Does it mean any other brand Coaxial is good enough since Micro P do not have Coaxial speakers.

C) Do we need to source for one coaxial to match the sound of the micro P 5 series? Any recommendation?

Sorry for asking so many questions. I hope for some guidance! Thanks in advance!

Bookmarking this as reference

 

[Dreamnyx]

Hello Shifus,

I am new to this and after reading finish all the pages, I really find this thread very informative and educational and I really appreciate the information here.

Would like to ask does anyone has any opinion of Esatto and Passione series?

I already have a 8 channel Esatto Dsp and was hoping to upgrade my speakers from my existing set of Esatto Comado speakers and ditch my active Alpine Pwe-v80 subwoofer to something passive if anyone can have good recommendations.

Do you recommend using Micro P 7 or Z series for this DSP? Leaning towards a 2 way setup as I don't wish to clutter my car so leaning towards a 7-Z or 7-7 setup if there are not much difference between a 7 series and Z tweeters.

But I am also tempted using 7/Z-Z-7/Z combo if there is really significant difference from just using 7 series mid and 7/Z tweeters.

BTW will a 2 way Z-7 sounds weird?

Does anyone has any advice or recommendation? Need some passive subwoofer recommendation too if anyone has any.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance!

 

[sbv7230]

Last time.. speakers are like after thought for normal cars...
now.. everyone .. also use 6-8 speakers ... bose or some brand one..

they also tuned for the car liao..

If u go listen, it's quite nice straight out of factory liao..

Audi stk system very good..
Sound is clear and crisp...

 

[CCCustom]

Hello Shifus,

I am new to this and after reading finish all the pages, I really find this thread very informative and educational and I really appreciate the information here.

Would like to ask does anyone has any opinion of Esatto and Passione series?

I already have a 8 channel Esatto Dsp and was hoping to upgrade my speakers from my existing set of Esatto Comado speakers and ditch my active Alpine Pwe-v80 subwoofer to something passive if anyone can have good recommendations.

Do you recommend using Micro P 7 or Z series for this DSP? Leaning towards a 2 way setup as I don't wish to clutter my car so leaning towards a 7-Z or 7-7 setup if there are not much difference between a 7 series and Z tweeters.

But I am also tempted using 7/Z-Z-7/Z combo if there is really significant difference from just using 7 series mid and 7/Z tweeters.

BTW will a 2 way Z-7 sounds weird?

Does anyone has any advice or recommendation? Need some passive subwoofer recommendation too if anyone has any.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance!

I am not familiar with Esatto or Passione ... and quite frankly I’m completely out of the scene when it comes to setups for integrated HUs. I’m from the time when people were still stripping integrated HUs and putting in Alpine F1 and Pioneer ODR for competition

But once the discussion is about Micro P, I still got thing to talk

Z tweeter + Z midrange + 7 midbass is not uncommon, it was a thing even during my time for people who wanted punchier bass.

I personally belong to the faction that believes that, if you’re using Z tweeters (and Z midrange) but using the 7 midbass for punchier bass, it means you either won’t be able to tell the difference between 7 and Z, or even you can tell the difference it does not benefit you for your usage enough to blow the price difference on the Z tweeters ... my time Z tweeters alone already $3k, I don’t know what the market is like for it these days.

P.S. if Z tweeters are still going for $3k now, I can sell you for $2k

 

[Dreamnyx]

I am not familiar with Esatto or Passione ... and quite frankly I’m completely out of the scene when it comes to setups for integrated HUs. I’m from the time when people were still stripping integrated HUs and putting in Alpine F1 and Pioneer ODR for competition

But once the discussion is about Micro P, I still got thing to talk

Z tweeter + Z midrange + 7 midbass is not uncommon, it was a thing even during my time for people who wanted punchier bass.

I personally belong to the faction that believes that, if you’re using Z tweeters (and Z midrange) but using the 7 midbass for punchier bass, it means you either won’t be able to tell the difference between 7 and Z, or even you can tell the difference it does not benefit you for your usage enough to blow the price difference on the Z tweeters ... my time Z tweeters alone already $3k, I don’t know what the market is like for it these days.

P.S. if Z tweeters are still going for $3k now, I can sell you for $2k

Haha thanks for your reply and advice!

Your offer is tempting but recently I just recently pulled the trigger after encouragement from a very friendly and helpful staff from my shop in Sin Ming and got myself a pair of 2nd hand Z Tweeters (2012) and 7 Midbase (2019) from another shop for just slightly above 1k (super good deal from the staff's opinion) with the same Esatto integrated dsp setup, and haven't change my active subwoofer which I placed in the front of my passenger seat. My shop helped me install with tuning free but commented Micro P not exactly suitable for Trance and house music during tuning.

I actually got my experienced friend who is using 7-5-7 setup and he commented that it was a huge improvement from my previous 2 way setup and he is rather surprised and impressed by my Esatto 8 channel dsp. He adviced me that I can retain my Esatto integrated dsp and told passive subwoofer is of a lower priority now but he is trying to tempt me to get mid range drivers first.

I am just worried that 50 volts per channel from my current dsp w amp may not be enough to fully unleash the potential of my Micro P speakers.. Should I add an external amp like Helix or Mosconi to my integrated dsp?

After realising the importance of midrange (after listening to my friend's setup) and after researching over the Internet for past week, especially Diymobile audio.com, I have shortlisted and tempted to install the following midrange drivers:

1) Micro P Z100
(but hard to find & expensive. Also worried about durability & fragility.)

2) Dynaudio Esotar 2 e430

3) Audio Development MM4
(DIYmobile forum labelled it as 1 of the best)

4) Xcelsus Xxm325 Competition
(Cheapest option and yet highly rated by DIY forum & mentioned can beat Utopia M midrange & close to 90% of Audio D & Esotar e430)

Any advice will be much appreciated.

P.S. If you are consider to sell your Micro P Z100, I will seriously consider!

 

[CCCustom]

Haha thanks for your reply and advice!

Your offer is tempting but recently I just recently pulled the trigger after encouragement from a very friendly and helpful staff from my shop in Sin Ming and got myself a pair of 2nd hand Z Tweeters (2012) and 7 Midbase (2019) from another shop for just slightly above 1k (super good deal from the staff's opinion) with the same Esatto integrated dsp setup, and haven't change my active subwoofer which I placed in the front of my passenger seat. My shop helped me install with tuning free but commented Micro P not exactly suitable for Trance and house music during tuning.

I actually got my experienced friend who is using 7-5-7 setup and he commented that it was a huge improvement from my previous 2 way setup and he is rather surprised and impressed by my Esatto 8 channel dsp. He adviced me that I can retain my Esatto integrated dsp and told passive subwoofer is of a lower priority now but he is trying to tempt me to get mid range drivers first.

I am just worried that 50 volts per channel from my current dsp w amp may not be enough to fully unleash the potential of my Micro P speakers.. Should I add an external amp like Helix or Mosconi to my integrated dsp?

After realising the importance of midrange (after listening to my friend's setup) and after researching over the Internet for past week, especially Diymobile audio.com, I have shortlisted and tempted to install the following midrange drivers:

1) Micro P Z100
(but hard to find & expensive. Also worried about durability & fragility.)

2) Dynaudio Esotar 2 e430

3) Audio Development MM4
(DIYmobile forum labelled it as 1 of the best)

4) Xcelsus Xxm325 Competition
(Cheapest option and yet highly rated by DIY forum & mentioned can beat Utopia M midrange & close to 90% of Audio D & Esotar e430)

Any advice will be much appreciated.

P.S. If you are consider to sell your Micro P Z100, I will seriously consider!

I don’t have Z midrange to sell.

Just so I’m not mistaken, there are 2 shops involved here, 1 where you bought the speakers but your installer is another shop? Sin Ming ... would 1 of these happen to be Soundwerkz? If yes, Kelvin knows me very well ... after all ...

I’ll suggest not taking the opinions of AMDKs to be the be-all-end-all ... as discussed in the middle of this thread (holy crap I just realised this thread is coming to 9 years old ) ... AMDKs and Asians (specifically, South East Asians) view SQ very differently.

As far as the local scene is concerned, Hybrid Audio’s Legatia L3 or L4 is supposedly a good match to the 7 2-way ... there were multiple enthusiasts in the scene back in the day running this combo 3-way, and general consensus was that it’s superior to those using the 5 midrange. Unfortunately, Hybrid Audio no longer has local distribution.

If die die can only choose between Helix and Mosconi, then Helix - Italian amps should go with “bright” speakers (I know I know ... not this $#!t again ).

But srsly ... want to play Z, go big or go home Something like ...

This may be the only pair of 4-channel and 2-channel Graphic Editions in chrome finish in S’pore. Interested?

 

[bad_ass09]

Read the whole thread since page 1. Phewww..

Hi guys. I have been into I.C.E since around 2004. But was mainly into SPL focused setups. But have been out of it for many years since starting a family. Previous setup was running JBL c608gti mk1 and DLS ultimates all 2 way passive setup with 2 × Rockford Fosgate P1 12" subs ported enclosures for loud boomy bass with Rockford mono amp with multiple HUs like jvc, sony xav-w1 then pioneer then pioneer again all double din dvd players.

but as years went by and you know stuffs tend to inevitably fail 1 by 1.. first my jbl tweeters kaput then just bought a focal tweeter and crossover combo and added to my jbl. Then my cadence 4 channel died. Then replaced it with a soundstream 4 ch amp. Then that died as well after a few years. Then that died as well.. just bought a cheap china GOSM 4 channel amp from my previous audio shop just so my kids can watch movies while i drive. Then all was well.. sound was okay and loud. Good for movies and all. Then in the end last week my dls in the rear died.

that's when i decided it's time to get back in the game and got installed a new HU Kenwood DMX9270XS and installed blackvue dashcams.

then the poison continued and i really wanted proper matching speakers and subs and really clear SQ from my music which is mostly jazz, pop and heavy metal and rock music. have always loved focal sound but those days in my 20's couldn't really afford them so had to suffice myself with rojak mix and match speakers and amps setup. Then i decided to get focals. So got a focal F40th audio kit installed and man was i blown away by the SQ. Especially those tweeters. I just realised how much i was missing out on audio all these years. And especially running active setup vs passive is so much more intense and the clarity is amazing. Now i'm hooked seriously. But there's a dilemma now.....

I know rear speakers are not a choice for audiophiles like us but i'm also a very avid movie lover/HTphile. Now i wanna run rear speakers as an when i watch movies with kids and wife while on long drives. And i thought i could just get a pair of 2 way components in the rear and as and when i watch movies i can just use the faders in the HU to on/off the rears.

PLAN 1: would this plan work out? If yes, then what speakers should i get for my rears?

PLAN 2:if No, then should i add a focal utopia 3WM to my current 2 way active system to make it 3 way active and be done with it since currently my focal fsp.8 dsp has 3 channels which are currently not in use as 4 channels are used for my tweeters and mid woofers and 1 channel is used by my sub. And i also have a spare focal fpx 4.800 4ch amp which maybe i can bridge and power the utopia 3WM.

Thanks in advance to the gurus.

 

[Dreamnyx]

Read the whole thread since page 1. Phewww..

Hi guys. I have been into I.C.E since around 2004. But was mainly into SPL focused setups. But have been out of it for many years since starting a family. Previous setup was running JBL c608gti mk1 and DLS ultimates all 2 way passive setup with 2 × Rockford Fosgate P1 12" subs ported enclosures for loud boomy bass with Rockford mono amp with multiple HUs like jvc, sony xav-w1 then pioneer then pioneer again all double din dvd players.

but as years went by and you know stuffs tend to inevitably fail 1 by 1.. first my jbl tweeters kaput then just bought a focal tweeter and crossover combo and added to my jbl. Then my cadence 4 channel died. Then replaced it with a soundstream 4 ch amp. Then that died as well after a few years. Then that died as well.. just bought a cheap china GOSM 4 channel amp from my previous audio shop just so my kids can watch movies while i drive. Then all was well.. sound was okay and loud. Good for movies and all. Then in the end last week my dls in the rear died.

that's when i decided it's time to get back in the game and got installed a new HU Kenwood DMX9270XS and installed blackvue dashcams.

then the poison continued and i really wanted proper matching speakers and subs and really clear SQ from my music which is mostly jazz, pop and heavy metal and rock music. have always loved focal sound but those days in my 20's couldn't really afford them so had to suffice myself with rojak mix and match speakers and amps setup. Then i decided to get focals. So got a focal F40th audio kit installed and man was i blown away by the SQ. Especially those tweeters. I just realised how much i was missing out on audio all these years. And especially running active setup vs passive is so much more intense and the clarity is amazing. Now i'm hooked seriously. But there's a dilemma now.....

I know rear speakers are not a choice for audiophiles like us but i'm also a very avid movie lover/HTphile. Now i wanna run rear speakers as an when i watch movies with kids and wife while on long drives. And i thought i could just get a pair of 2 way components in the rear and as and when i watch movies i can just use the faders in the HU to on/off the rears.

PLAN 1: would this plan work out? If yes, then what speakers should i get for my rears?

PLAN 2:if No, then should i add a focal utopia 3WM to my current 2 way active system to make it 3 way active and be done with it since currently my focal fsp.8 dsp has 3 channels which are currently not in use as 4 channels are used for my tweeters and mid woofers and 1 channel is used by my sub. And i also have a spare focal fpx 4.800 4ch amp which maybe i can bridge and power the utopia 3WM.

Thanks in advance to the gurus.

Not a guru here but previously after doing alot of research, involving asking both shop tuners and friends around, it seems that the major consensus is rear speakers are not important. And I learnt during competitions, they turn off the rear speakers. But it all changed after recently I met a very good guru who studied music in school at my favourite shop..

Just happen that we both coincidentally wanted to compare the new Helix V8 MK2 DSP Vs Esatto Comado D8-MK2 DSP (both integrated with amp) at the exact same time, thus the boss brought us together to test in the same room. I started to notice how unique his way to test the system. Both DSP settings were flat and the key moment is he tested the SQ by both facing the speakers and facing away from the speakers which he later explained to me that a good pair of speakers must also sound good when they are behind you.

So far along all the people I met, he was the 1 that managed to answer all my queries and he told me is a matter of personal preference but he himself prefer the real surround sound and he taught me to use youtube "dolby atmos" videos to test the immerse effect. I sat at his car and I was very impressed by his 3 way active at the front and 2 way behind using 8+2 integrated channel dsp.

Ultimately I learnt that just simply using top end equipment may not win competitions and those who won competitions may not have the most "up to date sound technology", and key is good tuning with customized placement of speakers (depending on personal preference, car build etc) and using the right mix of equipment which a very good minimum 8 channel dsp is a pivotal prerequisite foundation for an excellent all-round experience that includes movies and specific different music genres etc, which you actually already have. I was very surprised he actually wanted to put his rear tweeters on top of his driver belt area (top of middle pillars, below roof) instead of his rear dashboard for better surround but lamented his car is sun roof, thus not possible for him.

Conclusion by both the boss and him is that playing only front could be outdated for personal enjoyment and to get the immerse surround effect, you also need BOTH a good pair of midbase and tweeters at the back. Unless competing is your main priority, then just invest heavily for the front and rear can just stick to stock speakers. The guru personally don't care about competition thus he invested in both front and rear components quite evenly with only slightly more emphasis to his front 3 way.

My 2 cents is your Plan 2 could work. If you really love the signature sound of focal, you can make it pure focal for both front and back for sound signature consistency but some will love to mix. My current Esatto Comado D8 have 8 amplified channels, and 2 passive channels usually for amplifiers for passive subwoofer (is yours similar to mine? If yes, maybe you can reference mine). How I plan to set up after discussion with my him and my good friend is, my front 3 way active taking up 6 amplified channels and the rest of the 2 amplified goes to my rear 2 way midbase speakers. My rear tweeters will run passive (since out of channels) and the balance 2 non amplified channels will go to subwoofers. Hope it helps.

 

[bad_ass09]

Not a guru here but previously after doing alot of research, involving asking both shop tuners and friends around, it seems that the major consensus is rear speakers are not important. And I learnt during competitions, they turn off the rear speakers. But it all changed after recently I met a very good guru who studied music in school at my favourite shop..

Just happen that we both coincidentally wanted to compare the new Helix V8 MK2 DSP Vs Esatto Comado D8-MK2 DSP (both integrated with amp) at the exact same time, thus the boss brought us together to test in the same room. I started to notice how unique his way to test the system. Both DSP settings were flat and the key moment is he tested the SQ by both facing the speakers and facing away from the speakers which he later explained to me that a good pair of speakers must also sound good when they are behind you.

So far along all the people I met, he was the 1 that managed to answer all my queries and he told me is a matter of personal preference but he himself prefer the real surround sound and he taught me to use youtube "dolby atmos" videos to test the immerse effect. I sat at his car and I was very impressed by his 3 way active at the front and 2 way behind using 8+2 integrated channel dsp.

Ultimately I learnt that just simply using top end equipment may not win competitions and those who won competitions may not have the most "up to date sound technology", and key is good tuning with customized placement of speakers (depending on personal preference, car build etc) and using the right mix of equipment which a very good minimum 8 channel dsp is a pivotal prerequisite foundation for an excellent all-round experience that includes movies and specific different music genres etc, which you actually already have. I was very surprised he actually wanted to put his rear tweeters on top of his driver belt area (top of middle pillars, below roof) instead of his rear dashboard for better surround but lamented his car is sun roof, thus not possible for him.

Conclusion by both the boss and him is that playing only front could be outdated for personal enjoyment and to get the immerse surround effect, you also need BOTH a good pair of midbase and tweeters at the back. Unless competing is your main priority, then just invest heavily for the front and rear can just stick to stock speakers. The guru personally don't care about competition thus he invested in both front and rear components quite evenly with only slightly more emphasis to his front 3 way.

My 2 cents is your Plan 2 could work. If you really love the signature sound of focal, you can make it pure focal for both front and back for sound signature consistency but some will love to mix. My current Esatto Comado D8 have 8 amplified channels, and 2 passive channels usually for amplifiers for passive subwoofer (is yours similar to mine? If yes, maybe you can reference mine). How I plan to set up after discussion with my him and my good friend is, my front 3 way active taking up 6 amplified channels and the rest of the 2 amplified goes to my rear 2 way midbase speakers. My rear tweeters will run passive (since out of channels) and the balance 2 non amplified channels will go to subwoofers. Hope it helps.

I did actually make plan sort of work. I moved the f40th to rear running passive and installed focal utopia M 3 way active in the front. And now i'm a happy camper. And also love the surround in dolby atmos music. Still using the amp and dsp that was included in the f40th audio kit and added another focal fpx 4.800 for the utopia 6.5wm and the rears.

 

[Noirkw]

Hi guys. Need advise for HU for my K3 2017. Currently using stock motrex unit. Want to upgrade to something with wireless AA as I hate messy cables. Looking at the pioneer 9250bt. Are there any other options?

 

[Dreamnyx]

I don’t have Z midrange to sell.

Just so I’m not mistaken, there are 2 shops involved here, 1 where you bought the speakers but your installer is another shop? Sin Ming ... would 1 of these happen to be Soundwerkz? If yes, Kelvin knows me very well ... after all ...

I’ll suggest not taking the opinions of AMDKs to be the be-all-end-all ... as discussed in the middle of this thread (holy crap I just realised this thread is coming to 9 years old ) ... AMDKs and Asians (specifically, South East Asians) view SQ very differently.

As far as the local scene is concerned, Hybrid Audio’s Legatia L3 or L4 is supposedly a good match to the 7 2-way ... there were multiple enthusiasts in the scene back in the day running this combo 3-way, and general consensus was that it’s superior to those using the 5 midrange. Unfortunately, Hybrid Audio no longer has local distribution.

If die die can only choose between Helix and Mosconi, then Helix - Italian amps should go with “bright” speakers (I know I know ... not this $#!t again ).

But srsly ... want to play Z, go big or go home Something like ...

This may be the only pair of 4-channel and 2-channel Graphic Editions in chrome finish in S’pore. Interested?

Hey shifu, how much are you letting go for your Brax and Genesis amps? Maybe you can pm me? Thanks!

 

[CCCustom]

Hey shifu, how much are you letting go for your Brax and Genesis amps? Maybe you can pm me? Thanks!

No need PM.

Genesis? Sold a long time ago

Brax? $6k for both ... that’s half price Only letting go as a pair, because these are probably the only pair of Graphic Edition X2400.2 and X2000.2 in chrome finish on this island.

Come ... buy from me

 

[bad_ass09]

Hi guys. Need advise for HU for my K3 2017. Currently using stock motrex unit. Want to upgrade to something with wireless AA as I hate messy cables. Looking at the pioneer 9250bt. Are there any other options?

Maybe can go for the kenwood dmx9720xs lile me.

 

[bad_ass09]

No need PM.

Genesis? Sold a long time ago

Brax? $6k for both ... that’s half price Only letting go as a pair, because these are probably the only pair of Graphic Edition X2400.2 and X2000.2 in chrome finish on this island.

Come ... buy from me

Bro saw a graphic edition 2 channel at xtremez audio.

 

[CCCustom]

Bro saw a graphic edition 2 channel at xtremez audio.

If you’re wondering if it’s mine, it’s not ... I don’t think what you saw was a chrome edition?

 

[bad_ass09]

If you’re wondering if it’s mine, it’s not ... I don’t think what you saw was a chrome edition?

<iframe width = "480" height = "360" src = "https://app.photobucket.com/shared/slideshow/u/bad_assprabhu/a/150749e4-46ed-447e-8e47-0e337dd08904" ></iframe>

 

[CCCustom]

<iframe width = "480" height = "360" src = "https://app.photobucket.com/shared/slideshow/u/bad_assprabhu/a/150749e4-46ed-447e-8e47-0e337dd08904" ></iframe>

Yeah ... not chrome edition.

 

[fat3df3rluv]

i am new to this scene but was being introduced that the esatto set up is nothing compared to eton full set up with dsp stealth, can I ask if this is true and what are your opinions before I pull the trigger

 

[Qoojay]

I'm looking to install tweeters in my ride.

Are HK tweeters really worth it? Does other less expensive brands sounds the same?