[CONSOLIDATED] Air India plane crashes at India's Ahmedabad airport

[RedEyesFan]

Meanwhile, SQ321 investigation takes forever. Already more than a year after the plane deliberately flew into high turbulence zone.

 

[tmkedmw]

Didn't do a thorough job in the programming or defining the interlocks for fuel cut off.

During take off, this should be disabled, or a secondary acknowledgement before it really gets enabled.

The fuel cut off switch can be operated manually by the pilot, eg in case of engine problems, pilot can switch off and turn it back on but plane must be sufficiently high altitude to allow the engine time to restart and not run into danger of crashing to ground/sea.

Don't think software can override.

You see the earlier pic that I posted, those switches are designed to prevent accidental bumps from changing it's position

 

[28cMostlyCloudy]

Think they should start re evaluate the SOP for the cut-off fuel protocol

The cut off fuel switch now look more like a kill switch.

Which just 1 person can easily activate it. Prone to error if you ask me

 

[fire]

Wondering how and where they got their pilot license.

oh……no worries, they be flying for Scoot soon, and likely SIA too?

Arl boycott scoot when heard the news, if sia uses also boycott

 

[xiao.xin]

Anyway as someone that works with them very often the only drama could be is the one asking the question is the one that flip the fuel switch.

Trust me, happen before.

 

[tmkedmw]

Think they should start re evaluate the SOP for the cut-off fuel protocol

The cut off fuel switch now look more like a kill switch.

Which just 1 person can easily activate it. Prone to error if you ask me

The switch must be pulled up before changing position.
There are guard rail to prevent accidental bumps from moving them.

These switches are necessary in emergency.
Pilots do it all the time on the ground for starting and stopping engines.

 

[DW]

How does a trained pilot even make the error of switching off both FUEL switches right after take off? The switches aren't even placed in a prominent position

 

[HoGnix]

But pilots also gone liao and the last word is he didn't do it

So now like 死无对证 like that.

Very different situation and seriousness lei

Pilot kumgong go cut the fuel VS the plane ownself cut the fuel

Nowadays almost all moving vehicles are equipped with in cabin video recording devices, not for areoplan?

 

[anchoraz]

Scary sia. Nxt time dun take any flight related to them.

Jus like trying to step brake then turn engine off. The brake pump cut off liao. Hw to brake?

 

[pwongkk]

The fuel cut off switch can be operated manually by the pilot, eg in case of engine problems, pilot can switch off and turn it back on but plane must be sufficiently high altitude to allow the engine time to restart and not run into danger of crashing to ground/sea.

Don't think software can override.

You see the earlier pic that I posted, those switches are designed to prevent accidental bumps from changing it's position

It's possible to design interlocks to the switches.

Nearest to us is the car's auto gear stick. There's an interlock that prevents you from switching to R or P while in N. You need to press the button to shift. Of course you can't stop a determined person from pressing the button to force it to R or P while cruising forward, it does help to prevent accidental engagement.

For the aircraft, cheapest remedial option is to put a cover over the switch. Need to flip the cover before can access the switch.

 

[tmkedmw]

It's possible to design interlocks to the switches.

Nearest to us is the car's auto gear stick. There's an interlock that prevents you from switching to R or P while in N. You need to press the button to shift. Of course you can't stop a determined person from pressing the button to force it to R or P while cruising forward, it does help to prevent accidental engagement.

For the aircraft, cheapest remedial option is to put a cover over the switch. Need to flip the cover before can access the switch.

Posted earlier with pic.

The design of the switch prevents an accidental bump from moving it from run to cutoff
Deliberate action needed.
See pic below

 

[tatsit]

It's possible to design interlocks to the switches.

Nearest to us is the car's auto gear stick. There's an interlock that prevents you from switching to R or P while in N. You need to press the button to shift. Of course you can't stop a determined person from pressing the button to force it to R or P while cruising forward, it does help to prevent accidental engagement.

For the aircraft, cheapest remedial option is to put a cover over the switch. Need to flip the cover before can access the switch.

there are already posts before you to explain how these switch were designed such that it has to be deliberately activated. accidental engagement was already part of the design.

besides, pilots are trained when to use it to the point where it is muscle memory. this cut off switch was not part of any procedure during take off.

the only thing that can explain is an untrained pilot not knowing what he is doing

 

[tatsit]

it is different totally. to activate these switches, one has to pull it out (spring loaded), push it to the other side over an indent and release it.

not the same as flicking the wall switch.

 

[pwongkk]

there are already posts before you to explain how these switch were designed such that it has to be deliberately activated. accidental engagement was already part of the design.

besides, pilots are trained when to use it to the point where it is muscle memory. this cut off switch was not part of any procedure during take off.

the only thing that can explain is an untrained pilot not knowing what he is doing

There's also the possibility the pilot engaged the wrong switch.

Deliberate attempts aside, having interlocks or an extra step does help prevent engaging the wrong switch.

Even in a warship, the fire has to turn the key on the console before he can press the button to fire off a missile.

 

[pwongkk]

Posted earlier with pic.

The design of the switch prevents an accidental bump from moving it from run to cutoff
Deliberate action needed.
See pic below

Looks like no way to accidentally disable, unless the switches are faulty.

 

[tatsit]

There's also the possibility the pilot engaged the wrong switch.

Deliberate attempts aside, having interlocks or an extra step does help prevent engaging the wrong switch.

Even in a warship, the fire has to turn the key on the console before he can press the button to fire off a missile.

tell me how do you deliberately activate the wrong switch?

based on your logic, even in a warship, he can deliberately turn the key on the console and fire off a missile wrongly too.

 

[pwongkk]

tell me how do you deliberately activate the wrong switch?

based on your logic, even in a warship, he can deliberately turn the key on the console and fire off a missile wrongly too.

There is 1 more extra step, more of a safety check.

Assuming you put a cover over the switch, the cover is the 1st line of defense against accidental activation. You need to lift the cover, which instinctly tells you it is the wrong switch.

 

[tatsit]

There is 1 more extra step, more of a safety check.

Assuming you put a cover over the switch, the cover is the 1st line of defense against accidental activation. You need to lift the cover, which instinctly tells you it is the wrong switch.

these pilots are trained leh hello. the fuel cut off also requires an additional step to pull the spring loaded switch in order to switch it over an indent. and

based on your logic, nothing is stopping him from deliberating 'accidentally' lifting a cover before accessing the switch. because to him, there is no instinct telling him it is wrong if there isnt anything already wrong from pulling a spring loaded switch that was designed totally different from rest of the switch

 

[tmkedmw]

The 2 fuel switches moved to cutoff in about 1 second, one after another.
Wonder is that possible with 2 spring loaded switch that requires lifting up before moving it.
The PF (pilot flying) will be too busy as flight just lift off. The PM (pilot monitor) has the time to do it though.
Wasn't stated who is the PF and PM in the report.

Or maybe the resolution of the timing is rather coarse, eg 1.9 second is logged as 1 second dependent on the sampling interval ?

Take note that recovery action (by pilot/or pilots) had been initiated to restart both the engines but there wasn't enough time for the engines to develop sufficient thrust ...

 

[Talkbird888]

1 of the pilot just wan to make history n make everyone die with him.