(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[purpleberry]

Few questions on beans:

1. Some beans are really hard and gives much fewer yield under the same grinder settings. Usually these are the cheaper beans. Is this due to the roasting process? Not sure if its advisable to continue drinking it as need to grind 4-5 times to get the same yield as a normal bean.

2. Coffee beans at supermarkets have a longer expiry date whereas those from specialty roasters are only 3 months recommended. Is this due to the packaging or roasting process?

 

[testerjp]

Tester, what's your typical yield for Strega double shots e.g. 18-19g? Do you stop when the lever hits the top?

I go by ml, I find life is easier and don't want to mess up the ratio of milk to espresso in lattes/caps.
Specifically, extracting for about 20-25 secs at flow around 1ml/sec, counting from the first drip, not from the pump starts.

How can it be possible that the lever hits the top unless you release the lever earlier? That takes too long.

 

[testerjp]

Few questions on beans:

1. Some beans are really hard and gives much fewer yield under the same grinder settings. Usually these are the cheaper beans. Is this due to the roasting process? Not sure if its advisable to continue drinking it as need to grind 4-5 times to get the same yield as a normal bean.

2. Coffee beans at supermarkets have a longer expiry date whereas those from specialty roasters are only 3 months recommended. Is this due to the packaging or roasting process?

1. Light roast, pure arabica are imo "harder" to get the body unless you add damn a lot of coffee. Avoid those lor, unless you really like those bright profiles. But a weaker body doesn't mean the espresso is bad, use your tongue to judge.


2. Is due to the packaging. Small roasters can't afford to buy advance packaging machines to use MAP to flush the insider to bring oxidation to stagnation. I bought from a few roasters in SG before, their one way valve don't even work, you can blow air inside from the valve, guess they bought from taobao.


If the coffee after roasting did not rest long enough, the crema will be alot due to the amount of CO2 in it. The coffee profiles don't really come out fully. So it doesn't necessary mean that the more crema, the better it should taste. Tried before with those kopitiam coffee beans, the espresso is like Guinness stout with very thick crema as they just roasted it.

 

[DriftKing]

Few questions on beans:

1. Some beans are really hard and gives much fewer yield under the same grinder settings. Usually these are the cheaper beans. Is this due to the roasting process? Not sure if its advisable to continue drinking it as need to grind 4-5 times to get the same yield as a normal bean.

2. Coffee beans at supermarkets have a longer expiry date whereas those from specialty roasters are only 3 months recommended. Is this due to the packaging or roasting process?

1) Not sure what's the hard part and the yield, you mean the you grind 10g only 5g came out of grinder? Or same 18g basket but only 25ml instead of 36ml (if 1:2 ratio)? You may try to grind coarser for the usual flow rate. But maybe this bean works with being a ristretto?

2) Packaging, most likely vacuum + nitrogen filled like potato chips, but they can't fully remove the air if not the oils inside will go weird. But again, not a fan of supermarket beans when there are so many roasters out there now, unless you like those standard blends like illy's e.t.c

 

[purpleberry]

I go by ml, I find life is easier and don't want to mess up the ratio of milk to espresso in lattes/caps.
Specifically, extracting for about 20-25 secs at flow around 1ml/sec, counting from the first drip, not from the pump starts.

How can it be possible that the lever hits the top unless you release the lever earlier? That takes too long.

Read from Jim Schulman that the best timing is when the first drip flows just when the pump stops. When that happens, we usually lift up the lever and let the pressure control it all the way up. At what point do you remove the cup? About 80% or more it starts to blonde.

1. Light roast, pure arabica are imo "harder" to get the body unless you add damn a lot of coffee. Avoid those lor, unless you really like those bright profiles. But a weaker body doesn't mean the espresso is bad, use your tongue to judge.

2. Is due to the packaging. Small roasters can't afford to buy advance packaging machines to use MAP to flush the insider to bring oxidation to stagnation. I bought from a few roasters in SG before, their one way valve don't even work, you can blow air inside from the valve, guess they bought from taobao.

If the coffee after roasting did not rest long enough, the crema will be alot due to the amount of CO2 in it. The coffee profiles don't really come out fully. So it doesn't necessary mean that the more crema, the better it should taste. Tried before with those kopitiam coffee beans, the espresso is like Guinness stout with very thick crema as they just roasted it.

1) Not sure what's the hard part and the yield, you mean the you grind 10g only 5g came out of grinder? Or same 18g basket but only 25ml instead of 36ml (if 1:2 ratio)? You may try to grind coarser for the usual flow rate. But maybe this bean works with being a ristretto?

2) Packaging, most likely vacuum + nitrogen filled like potato chips, but they can't fully remove the air if not the oils inside will go weird. But again, not a fan of supermarket beans when there are so many roasters out there now, unless you like those standard blends like illy's e.t.c

I've thrown away the super hard coffee beans. Usually I set the grinder to double dosage and I can get ~16-17gms out of it but with the super hard (and cheap too), I can only get like 3-4gms. It tastes very burnt so I suppose the roasting process was too long. In a way, the taste is quite similar to French roast which is very dark beans.

I have tried Illy and Boncafe (Tangs) which are quite good. Illy is way overpriced here.

 

[linusz]

Read from Jim Schulman that the best timing is when the first drip flows just when the pump stops. When that happens, we usually lift up the lever and let the pressure control it all the way up. At what point do you remove the cup? About 80% or more it starts to blonde.

I've thrown away the super hard coffee beans. Usually I set the grinder to double dosage and I can get ~16-17gms out of it but with the super hard (and cheap too), I can only get like 3-4gms. It tastes very burnt so I suppose the roasting process was too long. In a way, the taste is quite similar to French roast which is very dark beans.

I have tried Illy and Boncafe (Tangs) which are quite good. Illy is way overpriced here.

Boncafe is arabica? How much from tangs. Can share?

 

[tremor]

Anybody tried ikea coffee beans?

Supposed to be 100% arabica.

 

[purpleberry]

Boncafe is arabica? How much from tangs. Can share?

Yes arabica. Quite reasonably priced. Here's the link. Good for practicing your shots.

https://www.fairprice.com.sg/product/boncafe-royale-viennese-coffee-500g-13036739

 

[testerjp]

Read from Jim Schulman that the best timing is when the first drip flows just when the pump stops. When that happens, we usually lift up the lever and let the pressure control it all the way up. At what point do you remove the cup? About 80% or more it starts to blonde.





I've thrown away the super hard coffee beans. Usually I set the grinder to double dosage and I can get ~16-17gms out of it but with the super hard (and cheap too), I can only get like 3-4gms. It tastes very burnt so I suppose the roasting process was too long. In a way, the taste is quite similar to French roast which is very dark beans.

I have tried Illy and Boncafe (Tangs) which are quite good. Illy is way overpriced here.

Releasing the lever after the first drip appear is the standard way of using the Bezzera Strega but that's not the only way. You can release the lever earlier or later which will change the range of pressure used.

If you release the lever earlier(before first drip appears), the range of pressure applied will be lower, the lesser the bitterness the brighter the coffee become. - Good for taming very dark roast

If you release it later, it will hover around a higher range of pressure. It bring out more intensity and reduce the brightness. - Good for bringing back a balance for very light roast.

If you don't release the lever at all, the extraction will be done fully at high pressure, similar to the regular machines like E61 or my office BZ. I find that the flavours done in this way is not as wide so I don't do this.

So there's a lot of ways to play with the Bezzera Strega, depends on the coffee you have and how you wish to tune the flavour to your preference.


I'm not sure what's the super hard you referring. Maybe it's with robusta, maybe it's a darker roast or maybe the coffee is simpliy more oily. It creates too much resistance and you only drew 3-4gms, that's obviously an overextraction.

Illy is quite good imo, find it better than many local roasters but yes it's way overpriced in SG.

 

[purpleberry]

Releasing the lever after the first drip appear is the standard way of using the Bezzera Strega but that's not the only way. You can release the lever earlier or later which will change the range of pressure used.

If you release the lever earlier(before first drip appears), the range of pressure applied will be lower, the lesser the bitterness the brighter the coffee become. - Good for taming very dark roast

If you release it later, it will hover around a higher range of pressure. It bring out more intensity and reduce the brightness. - Good for bringing back a balance for very light roast.

If you don't release the lever at all, the extraction will be done fully at high pressure, similar to the regular machines like E61 or my office BZ. I find that the flavours done in this way is not as wide so I don't do this.

So there's a lot of ways to play with the Bezzera Strega, depends on the coffee you have and how you wish to tune the flavour to your preference.


I'm not sure what's the super hard you referring. Maybe it's with robusta, maybe it's a darker roast or maybe the coffee is simpliy more oily. It creates too much resistance and you only drew 3-4gms, that's obviously an overextraction.

Illy is quite good imo, find it better than many local roasters but yes it's way overpriced in SG.

For those espresso blends which is usually a mixture or dark and light roasts, at which part/angle of the lever do you stop? If you are aiming for 20-25s, I suppose you are aiming for 20-25ml regardless of where the lever is?

A friend gave me ****r beans to try. I haven't opened yet but once I got used to the lever, I will give this a go.

 

[DriftKing]

Again it is the fun of discovering taste, and especially with the Strega (if only I'm able to own it together with the linea mini... much more to play with!)

Remember the strega's hot water per lever pull is way more than what you need for your espresso, you get your intended amount of coffee in cup and pull the cup away and let the rest drips away.

When I was using the Strega, I try to be as consistent, release lever once a few drop occurs. So with this variable fixed, I can taste the different beans.

For lever machine (including strega, tho not fully lever), you can play the lever for lighter roast as it will be affected the most from the difference in pressure. Darker roast tends to locks up and have a limited range that you can play with.

 

[testerjp]

Anybody tried ikea coffee beans?

Supposed to be 100% arabica.

That one really no good. Tried before.
Not if they had improved.

 

[testerjp]

For those espresso blends which is usually a mixture or dark and light roasts, at which part/angle of the lever do you stop? If you are aiming for 20-25s, I suppose you are aiming for 20-25ml regardless of where the lever is?

A friend gave me ****r beans to try. I haven't opened yet but once I got used to the lever, I will give this a go.

Yes for me in making for latte or standard espresso, just aim that ml/sec flow rate.
Then simply count the timing 20 to 25 secs.
After a while, you will master very quickly if things are wrong just from eyeballing.
20ml and 25 ml taste a big difference especially in a latte.

Dark roast I usually stop at 20ml - 22ml.
Medium roast, normally around 22ml - 25 ml.
Light roast, 25ml to 28 ml.

The lighter the roast, the more coffee I tend to use.


I never observe where the angle is at, but it's always roughly the same spot. The earlier you release, the higher the position it starts with and the lower the range of pressure exerted.


There are also other ways to use the machine like how that professional copper/grader Jim Schulman you referred to.
If you are drinking it straight black, Jim Schulman actually ignore the duration and everything and run until the extraction is transparent.

https://www.home-barista.com/levers/bezzera-strega-when-to-stop-pour-into-cup-t36821.html
https://www.home-barista.com/tips/bezzera-strega-target-pour-time-t30754.html

You don't have to be too confused, the beauty is the machine can somehow bring any sh/tty blend to life.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

At what point do you remove the cup? About 80% or more it starts to blonde.

I've thrown away the super hard coffee beans. Usually I set the grinder to double dosage and I can get ~16-17gms out of it but with the super hard (and cheap too), I can only get like 3-4gms. It tastes very burnt so I suppose the roasting process was too long. In a way, the taste is quite similar to French roast which is very dark beans.

I have tried Illy and Boncafe (Tangs) which are quite good. Illy is way overpriced here.

remove the cup once you have achieved your desired espresso weight. e.g. 18g dose, 36 brew espresso weight or what ever you decide. Don't bother about blonding. different coffees blonde at different brew weight. use brew weight correlated with taste as a better marker when to stop the pump. My blonde is your tan. very subjective to stop the brew based on colour.

dont' bother with illy or boncafe unless there is no better alternative.

Smell a bag of nylon, strangers, tiny roaster or even jewel and do an A/B comparison with illy/boncafe. Get from joe curious or something from cafebond (Small batch, etc) and you'll know where to spend your money.

Expensive beans are expensive because they are cupped and graded by trained coffee experts on a pretty standardised method and priced/auctioned accordingly.

Good roasters make it even more expensive by doing a lot of tesing to get a good roast profile and remove the lousy beans (quakers) post roast so the customers get absolutely top quality with no compromises. Some home roasters do this on their own and enjoy it is a hobby.

nothing wrong with drinking beans that are less aromatic. but it sure has to be price accordingly i.e. cheap.

cheap beans often gets sold to large companies to mass produce stuff like lavazza, illy, boncafe.

where did you get such hard beans? i'm curious to try. usually the darker the roast the easier and faster to grind. unless maybe the beans has turned into absolute charcoal which i am guessing is really hard.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

You don't have to be too confused, the beauty is the machine can somehow bring any sh/tty blend to life.

Absolute nonsense. Promoting machines from a certain brand again.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

That one really no good. Tried before.
Not if they had improved.

This is one thing i agree with you. Bad bad bad. should be priced cheaper to match the value.

 

[tremor]

This is one thing i agree with you. Bad bad bad. should be priced cheaper to match the value.

Any recommendations for value for money beans then? I’m sick of buying from supermarket. Overpriced.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Any recommendations for value for money beans then? I’m sick of buying from supermarket. Overpriced.

.

Generally prices are between 14-20 dollars for good beans.

I think highlander is 11-12. Their beans are not the best but still decent and easy to brew.

Nylon and tiny roaster beans are quite expensive but tbh it’s still value for money because of the quality. Some of the beans from tiny roaster are exceptional.

I think strangers is $15 -$16 for the chakra blend. Papa palheta should be around the same range.

Use a low retention grinder to avoid waste.

Alternative is to buy good greens in bulk and take up roasting.

 

[linusz]

.

Generally prices are between 14-20 dollars for good beans.

I think highlander is 11-12. Their beans are not the best but still decent and easy to brew.

Nylon and tiny roaster beans are quite expensive but tbh it*********s still value for money because of the quality. Some of the beans from tiny roaster are exceptional.

I think strangers is $15 -$16 for the chakra blend. Papa palheta should be around the same range.

Use a low retention grinder to avoid waste.

Alternative is to buy good greens in bulk and take up roasting.

Lam yeo
Tiong hoe

Nice?

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Lam yeo
Tiong hoe

Nice?

Tiong hoe single origins is good. But have to let their beans peak. Their stocks are usually too fresh.

Lam yeo have not tired but now u told me it exist I will certainly try.