Guoco Midtown

[NiShiZhu]

If MTM is not perceived to do well in the resale market, I wonder why would ppl still buy into the M now at 24xxpsf and up (some even pay 3000psf), given that I would assume buyers to choose MTM in the resale market compared to the M. Better product overall.

The M is only attractive during launch at 21xx-22xxpsf.
Anything higher than 2400psf can forget about it.

 

[NiShiZhu]

Thank you newbie and nishizhu for the data! Is this screenshot from an agent's tool? Do you have a link to the full 38 transactions?


The 101 transactions listed on PropGuru is definitely worrying lol. Assuming they're duplicated by a factor of 3, that's still ~34 units on the market, nearly as many as resale transactions there have been total!

According to Bala's chart, Duo should only have depreciated about 6% in the 8 years between its lease start (2011) and MTM's (2019), so the new launch premium for MTM is quite real.

Contribute by another old bird here, mr bolster.

http://ytreporp.com/propertyinvestment.php

 

[Milquetoaster]

Contribute by another old bird here, mr bolster.

http://ytreporp.com/propertyinvestment.php

This tool is amazing, thank you!

I'm a little more reassured by the full resale history of Duo; generally years 2017 (TOP) to 2019 were quite profitable for resales, and 2020 was quite terrible (mostly as expected).

https://imgur.com/a/QdZDe3L

(side note, noob question: what site do you use for hotlinking to images?)

 

[NiShiZhu]

This tool is amazing, thank you!

I'm a little more reassured by the full resale history of Duo; generally years 2017 (TOP) to 2019 were quite profitable for resales, and 2020 was quite terrible (mostly as expected).

https://imgur.com/a/QdZDe3L

(side note, noob question: what site do you use for hotlinking to images?)

I use the imgur app.
Happy posting

 

[daheigou999]

If MTM is not perceived to do well in the resale market, I wonder why would ppl still buy into the M now at 24xxpsf and up (some even pay 3000psf), given that I would assume buyers to choose MTM in the resale market compared to the M. Better product overall.

Probably scammed by agents telling them that the neighbouring South Beach Residences is selling at 3.5k+ psf. Hence, 3k psf is a “discount”.

But in reality, one would associate M with the Hotel 81 opposite rather than SBR.

 

[ThinkCarefully]

If MTM is not perceived to do well in the resale market, I wonder why would ppl still buy into the M now at 24xxpsf and up (some even pay 3000psf), given that I would assume buyers to choose MTM in the resale market compared to the M. Better product overall.

###

That was why I stayed away.


####

 

[Passerboy]

Probably scammed by agents telling them that the neighbouring South Beach Residences is selling at 3.5k+ psf. Hence, 3k psf is a “discount”.

But in reality, one would associate M with the Hotel 81 opposite rather than SBR.

Haha I agree on this, so I think a fair value is 21-22xxpsf for the M and perhaps 24-26xxpsf for Midtown Modern. Luxury project cost more

Personally, I would buy Midtown Modern but not the M. Visited both show flats, there is a huge disparity in the product imo. Duo also appears to be nice but it seems that the unit sizes are large and hence higher quantum.

 

[NiShiZhu]

Haha I agree on this, so I think a fair value is 21-22xxpsf for the M and perhaps 24-26xxpsf for Midtown Modern. Luxury project cost more

Personally, I would buy Midtown Modern but not the M. Visited both show flats, there is a huge disparity in the product imo. Duo also appears to be nice but it seems that the unit sizes are large and hence higher quantum.

Hehe, we can have a friendly bet which one will have more upsides when TOP, whether is it the M bought at 21xx-22xxpsf or MTM bought at 24xx-26xxpsf.

I’m also curious to know

 

[Passerboy]

Hehe, we can have a friendly bet which one will have more upsides when TOP, whether is it the M bought at 21xx-22xxpsf or MTM bought at 24xx-26xxpsf.

I’m also curious to know

Haha bro, more upside I think is the M at 21xxpsf, but this is the same logic as expressway facing Penrose 14xxpsf vs say Parc Esta at 16xxpsf in the same district launched at similar timing, the living conditions aint similar..

But I think Midtown Modern potential is there but the increase would be in tandem to Bugis transformation. And if Bugis really can overtake Orchard, which I am beginning to doubt, friends I spoke to prefers Orchard over Bugis given that the former still has that luxury and quaint living over the latter.

 

[bujingyun82]

If between the Liang Court integrated vs MTM for staying, I also prefer the locale of Liang Court over Bugis

Haha bro, more upside I think is the M at 21xxpsf, but this is the same logic as expressway facing Penrose 14xxpsf vs say Parc Esta at 16xxpsf in the same district launched at similar timing, the living conditions aint similar..

But I think Midtown Modern potential is there but the increase would be in tandem to Bugis transformation. And if Bugis really can overtake Orchard, which I am beginning to doubt, friends I spoke to prefers Orchard over Bugis given that the former still has that luxury and quaint living over the latter.

 

[Passerboy]

If between the Liang Court integrated vs MTM for staying, I also prefer the locale of Liang Court over Bugis

Interesting. Friend of mine actually opted Irwell Hill over Midtown Modern. I guess it all boils down to preference. Someone here shared the opposite choice not too long ago.

 

[bujingyun82]

Liang Court integrated has 2 facings. Towards Fort Canning hill and Singapore river.. good for fengshui also the locale is less messier than Bugis (think Bencoolen, fu lu Shou, peace centre fortune centre, guan yin temple etc)

 

[NPC016]

One agent telling me MTM got some 1 and 2 bedders bouncing out and asking if I want to consider. Like a bit the fast? Wonder if it's buyer's remorse or something else going on behind the scenes.

 

[snoopydog]

Its all about Product Diffentiation. While psf is important, other factors also come into play such as concept, architecture , layout , configuration, facilities, etc.
There is no denying that Bugis location is excellent. Duo Residences was expectedly a sellout then being the only one condo available. However, it was tough to sell when it TOP. It would require clever marketing just to move units back then.
https://www.propertylimbrothers.com/duo-residences-case-study
There was fierce competition within the project itself with many offerings of studios and 1 bedders. Now 2021, Duo faces more competition from much better project from Guoco Midtown and M ( excl SBR..being bigger units and high quantum). These WILL be the ONLY 4 condos available in Bugis itself for buyers to choose if they want to buy into Bugis, as no more land parcel available.
Duo faces huge challenges namely
1. Too many configurations due to its architecture…confusing
2. Inefficient layout and space wastage eg..long balconies, long corridors and walkways, odd angles. One need to discount these to get the “true” live in area and psf, and then compare to Guoco Midtown and M, and see if the price premium is worth the value. Some units of M also faces layout issues too.
3. Not well managed..just look at the Galleria, and the Hotel which changed management
4. Complaints of echoes and sound reverberations in inward facing units
5. Bad feng shui, if you are a believer. The not 1 but 2 “poison arrows” or Sha Qi from the VERY ACUTE sharp angle of Gateway Towers, and the “Wind Gap” sha qi from Gateway, gets amplified by the Duo Towers, with Parkview in its direct path. The concave surfaces of the builidngs only serve to amplify the shaqi
https://www.fengshuibalanz.com/bad-sha-chi/
https://www.geomancy.net/forums/topic/15970-duo-towers-office-and-residences-concave-buildings-has-a-strong-sha-qi-imbalance-that-can-affect-health-for-the-occupiers/
For these reasons, price for Duo will not be able to catch up and only gets propped up by the recent competition which has better concept, architecture, efficient layout, etc. Buyers will be looking at the project overall apart from PSF, and value. Guoco Midtown is already leading the rejuvenation and transformation of Bugis, with Shaw Towers and M. This will be a catalyst for more to come, and with Ophir Rochor and Kampong Bugis already in the works, its transformation is happening faster than in Marina and Shenton area ( too many condos and more coming up with those empty lands , meaning more competition ). Capital appreciation goes hand in hand with rejuvenation and transformation.
Déjà vu? The launch of The Sail back then had many in disbelief with its very high psf. The first movers had foresight and reaped huge rewards.
Guoco Midtown will be completed by 2025 with the completion of MTM. MTM already by itself is a great product, but with integration with Guoco Midtown, it becomes even more impressive. The old Bugis will pale in comparison to the new future Bugis or “Midtown”.
With the ongoing global Covid vaccination, borders will slowly but surely open up, and with some RCR projects already hitting $2kpsf, its for the individual buyers to decide if Bugis has value.

 

[daheigou999]

Its all about Product Diffentiation. While psf is important, other factors also come into play such as concept, architecture , layout , configuration, facilities, etc.
There is no denying that Bugis location is excellent. Duo Residences was expectedly a sellout then being the only one condo available. However, it was tough to sell when it TOP. It would require clever marketing just to move units back then.
https://www.propertylimbrothers.com/duo-residences-case-study
There was fierce competition within the project itself with many offerings of studios and 1 bedders. Now 2021, Duo faces more competition from much better project from Guoco Midtown and M ( excl SBR..being bigger units and high quantum). These WILL be the ONLY 4 condos available in Bugis itself for buyers to choose if they want to buy into Bugis, as no more land parcel available.
Duo faces huge challenges namely
1. Too many configurations due to its architecture…confusing
2. Inefficient layout and space wastage eg..long balconies, long corridors and walkways, odd angles. One need to discount these to get the “true” live in area and psf, and then compare to Guoco Midtown and M, and see if the price premium is worth the value. Some units of M also faces layout issues too.
3. Not well managed..just look at the Galleria, and the Hotel which changed management
4. Complaints of echoes and sound reverberations in inward facing units
5. Bad feng shui, if you are a believer. The not 1 but 2 “poison arrows” or Sha Qi from the VERY ACUTE sharp angle of Gateway Towers, and the “Wind Gap” sha qi from Gateway, gets amplified by the Duo Towers, with Parkview in its direct path. The concave surfaces of the builidngs only serve to amplify the shaqi
https://www.fengshuibalanz.com/bad-sha-chi/
https://www.geomancy.net/forums/topic/15970-duo-towers-office-and-residences-concave-buildings-has-a-strong-sha-qi-imbalance-that-can-affect-health-for-the-occupiers/
For these reasons, price for Duo will not be able to catch up and only gets propped up by the recent competition which has better concept, architecture, efficient layout, etc. Buyers will be looking at the project overall apart from PSF, and value. Guoco Midtown is already leading the rejuvenation and transformation of Bugis, with Shaw Towers and M. This will be a catalyst for more to come, and with Ophir Rochor and Kampong Bugis already in the works, its transformation is happening faster than in Marina and Shenton area ( too many condos and more coming up with those empty lands , meaning more competition ). Capital appreciation goes hand in hand with rejuvenation and transformation.
Déjà vu? The launch of The Sail back then had many in disbelief with its very high psf. The first movers had foresight and reaped huge rewards.
Guoco Midtown will be completed by 2025 with the completion of MTM. MTM already by itself is a great product, but with integration with Guoco Midtown, it becomes even more impressive. The old Bugis will pale in comparison to the new future Bugis or “Midtown”.
With the ongoing global Covid vaccination, borders will slowly but surely open up, and with some RCR projects already hitting $2kpsf, its for the individual buyers to decide if Bugis has value.

Thanks. Just curious - which agency are you from?

 

[scanner007]

Hehe, we can have a friendly bet which one will have more upsides when TOP, whether is it the M bought at 21xx-22xxpsf or MTM bought at 24xx-26xxpsf.

I’m also curious to know

I bet M with higher upside. Both projects is a street across.
$300 psf higher on average just for underground pass to MRT station and perhaps better layout for the Midtown?

Midown bedrooms is 11 sqm across all units(you can put in king size bed), but compromised on living room space for both the 1 and 2 bedder....

 

[snoopydog]

Thanks. Just curious - which agency are you from?

LOL... I am no agent

 

[ebiburger]

When will the caveats for MTM be out?

 

[1993newbie]

When will the caveats for MTM be out?

This Friday 330pm.

 

[hellfire88]

thoughts on bugis/orchard

feels like when I was younger I used to go bugis a lot but these days orchard seems better for me (just happened to end up there more often)

currently renting a place in orchard, it's pretty good. only small issue is when driving need to loop the circle depending on where you coming from/going, otherwise everything you need on a daily/weekend basis within walking distance

but bought own stay in Katong area as I think there is nicer for long term own stay/raise family kind + a little bit away from the city center action