High cholesterol

[Evcats]

You mean our body is stupid enough to produce something to harm itself? And one have to take chemicals to suppress it? Really?

Giving stupid example of drinking gallons water reflects your poor reasoning and logical thinking process.


Enlighten everyone what's the cause of the blockage in the ST article pls.

Yes bad cholesterol can be from diet and (mostly) produced by body, especially when u get older. That eventually cause the plague which thickens your blood vessels until the point of blockage.
I learnt this when I got heart attack 2 years back. Now taking medication to reduce LDL and to slower the thickening of blood vessels.

 

[rogze79]

Risk is higher with high LDL. Doesn’t matter if you “feel fit” or exercise or even healthy weight for some it may be genetics.
I had high LDL for years but was exercising, relatively fit for my age but probably diet was not so healthy (ie normal food Singaporean will eat daily). Refused to take medication few times thought I can improve my lifestyle/diet to overcome. had a heart attack 2 years ago as my artery was blocked
I don’t feel anyway unhealthy before the event.

You have just thrown general health advice out of the window. Exercise. Healthy weight. Feel good/fit.

Being fit is relative. Who are you comparing to? Elderly? Sedentary office workers?

You neglected what's the most important part that you refused to change.

Food.

 

[Mecisteus]

You mean our body is stupid enough to produce something to harm itself? And one have to take chemicals to suppress it? Really?

Giving stupid example of drinking gallons water reflects your poor reasoning and logical thinking process.


Enlighten everyone what's the cause of the blockage in the ST article pls.

Don't worry.

In the misguided keto world, atherosclerosis is only due to inflammation.

 

[rogze79]

Yes bad cholesterol can be from diet and (mostly) produced by body, especially when u get older. That eventually cause the plague which thickens your blood vessels until the point of blockage.
I learnt this when I got heart attack 2 years back. Now taking medication to reduce LDL and to slower the thickening of blood vessels.

Doesn't it occur to you that it can be blood clots and your general poor health? It's probably you are taking blood thinning medications too.

You can always find out how much cholesterol our body makes. And if dietary cholesterol plays any role.

FDA can tell you if it plays a role.

 

[rogze79]

Don't worry.

In the misguided keto world, atherosclerosis is only due to inflammation.

There's no hope for ignorance.

 

[Evcats]

You have just thrown general health advice out of the window. Exercise. Healthy weight. Feel good/fit.

Being fit is relative. Who are you comparing to? Elderly? Sedentary office workers?

You neglected what's the most important part that you refused to change.

Food.

Ya diet is the tough part. Exercise I think I’m doing ok with at least 50mins threadmill 5 days a week plus 30mins of weights.

 

[ceestudent]

Ya diet is the tough part. Exercise I think I’m doing ok with at least 50mins threadmill 5 days a week plus 30mins of weights.

Cut down your carb and eat more fiber then should be ok. Unless you want to be full keto.
You don't need so much sugar and carb if you are office worker.

 

[Evcats]

Doesn't it occur to you that it can be blood clots and your general poor health? It's probably you are taking blood thinning medications too.

You can always find out how much cholesterol our body makes. And if dietary cholesterol plays any role.

FDA can tell you if it plays a role.

I’m taking 2 medication now for cholesterol. One is to reduce bad cholesterol production from body and another is to lessen absorption of cholesterol from food. Taking both drops my LDL to acceptable level. Roughly each reduces half of my LDL level according to blood tests

 

[rogze79]

It's all about a mindset shift and desire to live better.

Food heals. Exercise augments the healing.

If you have been taking those meds for many months, you might have noticed a difference in your libido and cognitive functions.

 

[Mecisteus]

I’m taking 2 medication now for cholesterol. One is to reduce bad cholesterol production from body and another is to lessen absorption of cholesterol from food. Taking both drops my LDL to acceptable level. Roughly each reduces half of my LDL level according to blood tests

Once you are on the meds, your food tolerance can relax a bit.

You can enjoy more "nice" foods actually.

See like bro digdub.

 

[Evcats]

doctor also mentioned mine is genetic cause people usually only have heart attack their 60s. On the bright side I am young/healthy enough to survive it without major heart damage. Albeit long term medication now. I also see a lot of relatives with low LDL or high HDL despite their diet.
genes matter

 

[standarture]

High cholesterol from genetics is a real thing. But whether or not that scenario will cause heart attack is unknown. High cholesterol is not 100% guaranteed to cause arterial plague buildup. Till today, nothing has 100% confirmed the mechanism or link. It's just theories. Unless they can magically enslave someone and make him eat fat food, red meat everyday and monitor and test his body in real-time everyday.

 

[carey]

High cholesterol from genetics is a real thing. But whether or not that scenario will cause heart attack is unknown. High cholesterol is not 100% guaranteed to cause arterial plague buildup. Till today, nothing has 100% confirmed the mechanism or link. It's just theories. Unless they can magically enslave someone and make him eat fat food, red meat everyday and monitor and test his body in real-time everyday.

That's why there are no direct causation trials because it would be "unethical"

Nevertheless, anecdotal evidence is building up for the case that the function of cholesterol in our bodies is more complicated than initial theorized

 

[ceestudent]

Genetic? I thought this only affect people with high Lp (A)? If your Lp(A) is high then statin won’t help much. Cmiiw.

 

[rogze79]

High cholesterol from genetics is a real thing. But whether or not that scenario will cause heart attack is unknown. High cholesterol is not 100% guaranteed to cause arterial plague buildup. Till today, nothing has 100% confirmed the mechanism or link. It's just theories. Unless they can magically enslave someone and make him eat fat food, red meat everyday and monitor and test his body in real-time everyday.

There's a case study of 2 explorers in the 1930.

Difficult to access the full study. But through Perplexity ai, it did sum up quite nicely.

THE EFFECTS OF AN EXCLUSIVE, LONG-CONTINUED MEAT DIETBASED ON THE HISTORY, EXPERIENCES AND CLINICAL SURVEY OF VILHJALMUR STEFANSSON, ARCTIC EXPLORER​

Historical and Clinical Evidence

• The most detailed and controlled study of an exclusive, long-continued meat diet was conducted on Arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson and his colleague Karsten Andersen, who ate only meat for one year under medical supervision. Key findings include:
  • Weight: Stefansson lost 2.5 kg, which he considered to be excess weight, while Andersen lost 3 kg before an illness and regained it afterward2.
  • Caloric Intake: Both averaged about 2,600 calories per day, with most calories from fat and protein, and minimal carbohydrates (20–50 calories/day)2.
  • Blood Pressure: Stefansson maintained low-normal blood pressure throughout (105/70 mmHg). Andersen’s blood pressure decreased from 140/80 to 120/80 mmHg by the end of the year2.
  • Physical and Mental Vigor: No decrease in physical or mental vigor was observed. Both subjects led sedentary lives but reported no subjective or objective decline in vitality2.
  • Heat Tolerance and Appearance: Both men tolerated heat well and appeared healthier, with ruddier complexions at the end of the experiment2.
  • Hair and Teeth: Andersen reported reduced hair loss, and no deterioration of teeth was observed2.
  • Metabolism: Basal metabolic rate varied slightly, with no significant elevation due to the meat diet2.
  • Kidney Function: No evidence of kidney damage or change in kidney size was found after a year2.
  • Mineral Metabolism: Despite the acidic nature and low calcium content of the diet, there was no evidence of calcium deficiency or bone density loss in the short term, though increased dental tartar was noted2.
  • Blood Chemistry: Only minor changes were seen, such as a slight increase in uric acid and temporary lipemia after high fat intake. No significant changes in other blood parameters were observed2.
  • Intestinal Flora: No blood or significant mucus in feces; no adverse gastrointestinal effects reported2.

Modern Observations and Self-Reports

• Recent self-reports and small surveys of individuals on a modern "carnivore" diet (all-animal foods, no plants) echo some historical findings:
  • Subjective Health: Many report improved health and reduced inflammation58.
  • Blood Parameters: No adverse changes in most blood parameters, but significant increases in total and LDL cholesterol were consistently observed5.
  • Body Composition: Some individuals report loss of water weight and changes in body composition, including possible declines in bone mineral density, raising questions about long-term bone health6.
  • Physical Performance: Some report initial declines in endurance and energy, particularly for endurance exercise, during adaptation to the diet6.

Potential Risks and Considerations

• Cholesterol: The most consistent modern finding is a marked increase in total and LDL cholesterol, which may have long-term cardiovascular implications, though the clinical significance is still debated and requires further research5.
• Micronutrient Deficiency: While short-term studies show no clear deficiencies, concerns remain about long-term adequacy of certain vitamins and minerals, especially calcium and vitamin C, though no acute deficiencies were observed in the controlled Stefansson study2.
• Bone Health: Some anecdotal evidence suggests possible declines in bone mineral density, but this has not been systematically studied in large, long-term cohorts6.
• Adaptation Period: Many individuals report a difficult adaptation period with lethargy and gastrointestinal symptoms, particularly if the diet is very high in protein and low in fat26.

Summary Table: Key Effects of Exclusive Meat Diet​

Effect/Parameter	Historical Evidence (Stefansson/Andersen)	Modern Observations	Risks/Concerns
Weight	Mild weight loss	Water weight loss, body comp. changes	Potential muscle/fat loss
Blood Pressure	Stable or decreased	Not widely reported	None acute
Physical/Mental Vigor	No decline	Mixed, some report energy loss	Initial adaptation symptoms
Cholesterol	No significant change	Significant LDL/total increase	Cardiovascular risk
Kidney Function	No damage	Not widely reported	Theoretical risk
Bone Health	No short-term loss	Some report decline	Long-term risk unclear
Micronutrients	No acute deficiencies	Not systematically studied	Long-term risk possible
Inflammation	Not reported	Many report reduction	Subjective, needs research

Conclusion​

An exclusive, long-continued meat diet can be tolerated for at least one year without acute health deterioration if sufficient fat is included, as shown in controlled studies. Most blood and health parameters remain stable, but consistent increases in cholesterol and possible risks to bone health and micronutrient status warrant caution and further research256.

Citations:​

1. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/241588
2. https://gwern.net/doc/biology/1929-lieb.pdf
3. https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...Lieb/67fbda863359a931742add9149fe48e312333150
5. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5127873
6. https://wearechief.com/blogs/articles/carnivore-diet-before-and-after
7. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...bb5acf1&pid=1-s2.0-S0021925818768427-main.pdf
8. https://www.ion.ac.uk/news/carnivore-diet

---

Answer from Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/th...lhhfSJe2spkdJL64kg?0=d&utm_source=copy_output

 

[rogze79]

doctor also mentioned mine is genetic cause people usually only have heart attack their 60s. On the bright side I am young/healthy enough to survive it without major heart damage. Albeit long term medication now. I also see a lot of relatives with low LDL or high HDL despite their diet.
genes matter

It's disheartening to hear your doctor say things without proving it. Did you undergo genes sequencing? Just anyhow blame it on genes without knowing the actual cause. So convenient.

And to really blame our body for being stupid enough to produce things to harm itself. Worse. We take drugs to block the production.

What a world we live in.

 

[16/8IF]

Genetic? I thought this only affect people with high Lp (A)? If your Lp(A) is high then statin won’t help much. Cmiiw.

FYI there is a talk this coming April 23 2025 at Changi General Hospital on Lp (a)

 

[ceestudent]

FYI there is a talk this coming April 23 2025 at Changi General Hospital on Lp (a)

Wah, looks interesting. Hopefully they share the discussion on youtube.
I very seldom see doctor here openly talk about LP(A). They always discuss the HDL and LDL only.

 

[16/8IF]

Wah, looks interesting. Hopefully they share the discussion on youtube.
I very seldom see doctor here openly talk about LP(A). They always discuss the HDL and LDL only.

I attended one last year and it was well attended. It is free and there is Starbucks free too.

Not sure it will be the same. They only have a live webinar on April 22 2025 for healthcare sector.

Used to have lots of live webinar by Khoo Teck Puat hospital on Metabolic syndrome a couple of years ago,
so you need to look out for various medical webinar from various hospitals in SG.

FYI if I am not wrong Dr Loh is doing research in Singapore on Lp(a).

 

[Ironside]

There's a case study of 2 explorers in the 1930.

Difficult to access the full study. But through Perplexity ai, it did sum up quite nicely.

THE EFFECTS OF AN EXCLUSIVE, LONG-CONTINUED MEAT DIETBASED ON THE HISTORY, EXPERIENCES AND CLINICAL SURVEY OF VILHJALMUR STEFANSSON, ARCTIC EXPLORER​

Historical and Clinical Evidence

• The most detailed and controlled study of an exclusive, long-continued meat diet was conducted on Arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson and his colleague Karsten Andersen, who ate only meat for one year under medical supervision. Key findings include:
  • Weight: Stefansson lost 2.5 kg, which he considered to be excess weight, while Andersen lost 3 kg before an illness and regained it afterward2.
  • Caloric Intake: Both averaged about 2,600 calories per day, with most calories from fat and protein, and minimal carbohydrates (20–50 calories/day)2.
  • Blood Pressure: Stefansson maintained low-normal blood pressure throughout (105/70 mmHg). Andersen’s blood pressure decreased from 140/80 to 120/80 mmHg by the end of the year2.
  • Physical and Mental Vigor: No decrease in physical or mental vigor was observed. Both subjects led sedentary lives but reported no subjective or objective decline in vitality2.
  • Heat Tolerance and Appearance: Both men tolerated heat well and appeared healthier, with ruddier complexions at the end of the experiment2.
  • Hair and Teeth: Andersen reported reduced hair loss, and no deterioration of teeth was observed2.
  • Metabolism: Basal metabolic rate varied slightly, with no significant elevation due to the meat diet2.
  • Kidney Function: No evidence of kidney damage or change in kidney size was found after a year2.
  • Mineral Metabolism: Despite the acidic nature and low calcium content of the diet, there was no evidence of calcium deficiency or bone density loss in the short term, though increased dental tartar was noted2.
  • Blood Chemistry: Only minor changes were seen, such as a slight increase in uric acid and temporary lipemia after high fat intake. No significant changes in other blood parameters were observed2.
  • Intestinal Flora: No blood or significant mucus in feces; no adverse gastrointestinal effects reported2.

Modern Observations and Self-Reports

• Recent self-reports and small surveys of individuals on a modern "carnivore" diet (all-animal foods, no plants) echo some historical findings:
  • Subjective Health: Many report improved health and reduced inflammation58.
  • Blood Parameters: No adverse changes in most blood parameters, but significant increases in total and LDL cholesterol were consistently observed5.
  • Body Composition: Some individuals report loss of water weight and changes in body composition, including possible declines in bone mineral density, raising questions about long-term bone health6.
  • Physical Performance: Some report initial declines in endurance and energy, particularly for endurance exercise, during adaptation to the diet6.

Potential Risks and Considerations

• Cholesterol: The most consistent modern finding is a marked increase in total and LDL cholesterol, which may have long-term cardiovascular implications, though the clinical significance is still debated and requires further research5.
• Micronutrient Deficiency: While short-term studies show no clear deficiencies, concerns remain about long-term adequacy of certain vitamins and minerals, especially calcium and vitamin C, though no acute deficiencies were observed in the controlled Stefansson study2.
• Bone Health: Some anecdotal evidence suggests possible declines in bone mineral density, but this has not been systematically studied in large, long-term cohorts6.
• Adaptation Period: Many individuals report a difficult adaptation period with lethargy and gastrointestinal symptoms, particularly if the diet is very high in protein and low in fat26.

Summary Table: Key Effects of Exclusive Meat Diet​

Effect/Parameter	Historical Evidence (Stefansson/Andersen)	Modern Observations	Risks/Concerns
Weight	Mild weight loss	Water weight loss, body comp. changes	Potential muscle/fat loss
Blood Pressure	Stable or decreased	Not widely reported	None acute
Physical/Mental Vigor	No decline	Mixed, some report energy loss	Initial adaptation symptoms
Cholesterol	No significant change	Significant LDL/total increase	Cardiovascular risk
Kidney Function	No damage	Not widely reported	Theoretical risk
Bone Health	No short-term loss	Some report decline	Long-term risk unclear
Micronutrients	No acute deficiencies	Not systematically studied	Long-term risk possible
Inflammation	Not reported	Many report reduction	Subjective, needs research

Conclusion​

An exclusive, long-continued meat diet can be tolerated for at least one year without acute health deterioration if sufficient fat is included, as shown in controlled studies. Most blood and health parameters remain stable, but consistent increases in cholesterol and possible risks to bone health and micronutrient status warrant caution and further research256.

Citations:​

1. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/241588
2. https://gwern.net/doc/biology/1929-lieb.pdf
3. https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...Lieb/67fbda863359a931742add9149fe48e312333150
5. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5127873
6. https://wearechief.com/blogs/articles/carnivore-diet-before-and-after
7. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...bb5acf1&pid=1-s2.0-S0021925818768427-main.pdf
8. https://www.ion.ac.uk/news/carnivore-diet

---

Answer from Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/th...lhhfSJe2spkdJL64kg?0=d&utm_source=copy_output

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4921549/

This is a pretty interesting one subject intervention study.