Is it really over for Intel®?

[matique]

i think if you want to push your CPU, apex is a no brainer, just that cost is a big deterrent. Imo not worth for dailying, a good itx mobo is good enough for me and @Encrypted11 hahaha.

Regarding fans, for 120mm i went with phanteks T30, no regret. I bought 10x T30 during a taobao sale during covid i think it came around to just $24 or whatever per fan after stacking coupons and accounting for shipping/gst.

 

[fkchon]

i think if you want to push your CPU, apex is a no brainer, just that cost is a big deterrent. Imo not worth for dailying, a good itx mobo is good enough for me and @Encrypted11 hahaha.

Regarding fans, for 120mm i went with phanteks T30, no regret. I bought 10x T30 during a taobao sale during covid i think it came around to just $24 or whatever per fan after stacking coupons and accounting for shipping/gst.

well Taichi OCF is supposedly the Asrock Apex equivalent board, its only good for tuning memory, CPU clock tuning is quite barebones.

 

[fkchon]

The fittings I forgot to order finally arrived.

The instructions were wrong, it said that single side should use the 0.5mm thermalpad (grey color), double side use 0.2mm (blue color). But in reality the blue one was thicker, they got the measurements wrong so if I followed instructions the kit would just fall off the ram sticks due to lack of pressure. In the end I did grey color on the side with nand and grey + blue for side that is empty.

Bit of leak test

I need new cable mod cables, these were remnant of a full white build.

All operational.

I like these temperature, pretty much same as what I set for aircon 25'C

 

[Phen8210]

i think if you want to push your CPU, apex is a no brainer, just that cost is a big deterrent. Imo not worth for dailying, a good itx mobo is good enough for me and @Encrypted11 hahaha.

Regarding fans, for 120mm i went with phanteks T30, no regret. I bought 10x T30 during a taobao sale during covid i think it came around to just $24 or whatever per fan after stacking coupons and accounting for shipping/gst.

wah, quite worth, 24 dollar only

can resell for profit in carousel

 

[kimsix]

The fittings I forgot to order finally arrived.

The instructions were wrong, it said that single side should use the 0.5mm thermalpad (grey color), double side use 0.2mm (blue color). But in reality the blue one was thicker, they got the measurements wrong so if I followed instructions the kit would just fall off the ram sticks due to lack of pressure. In the end I did grey color on the side with nand and grey + blue for side that is empty.

Bit of leak test

I need new cable mod cables, these were remnant of a full white build.

All operational.

I like these temperature, pretty much same as what I set for aircon 25'C

ddr5 water cool even more needed than gpu, mine is ~44c when surfing edmw!

how was the temps just using the iceman ram cooler without water?

thinking of delidding my ddr5 for thicker heatsink

 

[fkchon]

ddr5 water cool even more needed than gpu, mine is ~44c when surfing edmw!

how was the temps just using the iceman ram cooler without water?

thinking of delidding my ddr5 for thicker heatsink

Teamgroup Xtreem 8800 CKD Stock heatspreader

Naked with no heatspreader

Watercooled with Iceman Directdie RAM waterblock

I never tried these on this kit because they were Directdie so water channels through the heatspreader, but I did have another kit that was standard non Directdie, it was about 2-3 degrees better than the stock heatspreader.

 

[fkchon]

I hope they move the memory controller onto same tile as compute tile so they fix the latency problem

 

[ragnarok95]

Look like Nova lake. Arrow lake refresh still not surface.

 

[fkchon]

Running some very modest settings I think 29.2'C is as high as it goes.

Exact same settings when I was running naked dimm, I think this error is thermal related as tREFI 262143 is too high.

I also noticed this board likes to give ram a bit more voltage when temperature is lower? even though it was keyed in manually

On the other hand, I need to be more aggressive with my E-core and P-core all core boost ratios.

 

[kimsix]

1.48v seems too conservative for watercool.

34c shouldnt get thermal error? I think go beyond 65c than will.

so bench away at 1.65v! do 9400?

 

[Encrypted11]

Tuning direction:
- 65535 tREFI max on tuning phase
- up to 1.65V VDD daily

When cleaning up can try increasing tREFI for microbenchmarks after being stressapptest 1H+ or VST+VT3 30 mins stable.

CPU Cores, D2D, NGU stock first

Settle real world stability before microbenchmark optimization.

 

[Encrypted11]

ddr5 water cool even more needed than gpu, mine is ~44c when surfing edmw!

how was the temps just using the iceman ram cooler without water?

thinking of delidding my ddr5 for thicker heatsink

Just go for it

There are underreported micro-temperature changes (because the OS tool based sensor polling rates are too slow to capture) that comes about installing ram blocks, water cooled or passive air cooled.

Because the microspikes in temps are so much lower with the DDR IC and PMIC, you get a lot more thermal stability per mhz/voltage point up to ~60C.

For those individuals that have frequent windows 11 delta updates rolling back due to inadequate memory stability, problems may disappear, less DRAM stability related nvlddmkm nvidia driver crashes as well that heavily rely on RAM stability.

 

[fkchon]

1.48v seems too conservative for watercool.

34c shouldnt get thermal error? I think go beyond 65c than will.

so bench away at 1.65v! do 9400?

unfortunately I don't have a god bin IMC, I recall when I tested earlier single stick 9333 was highest, maybe I can stabilize 9133 or 9200 with tighter timings. It's already very good imo.

My Ring is also 42x very stable, I might be able to do 43x I've never tried that. NGU I haven't tried pushing above 34x either, but from what I see 35-36x is the cap anyway.

D2D is a killer though, I'm missing lots of performance from there, synthetic benchmarks 36x is stable, I never tried to give it 1.13v like sugi did on his for 40x. But eventually after a cold boot I will get bunch of random errors despite the new bios offering a cold boot fix (it doesn't work). So far comfy stable for me is 32x.

 

[Encrypted11]

D2D on a 265k running stressapptest my conclusion 3-4 mths ago was that stock or +100-200mhz max is stable, but very briefly tested (can take as non factual)

havent had the opportunity to revisit for friend

 

[fkchon]

I think D2D stock is 2.1GHz, no way it runs that low max stable? So Sugi doing 4GHz is almost a 100% overclock, most people I see on overclock does 30-32x.

 

[fkchon]

Trying to stabilize 9133 first then I'll try to move onto 9200.

UPDATE: VDD2 1.48 VCCSA 1.5 no matter what memory VDD/VDDQ I have it instantly fails Karhu/TM5

Maybe this is as far as my memory controller goes haha

 

[m0n0n0ke]

https://www.8world.com/world/intel-...ZK8azp3t1Gkumo-8SU_aem_ig7Bnqubjc6VTlTCPtswXQ

 

[ragnarok95]

Nova lake support DDR5 8000 natively.

 

[fkchon]

no one sign business deal for Intel 18A they gotta cut the fabs production headcount

I'm looking forward to Nova Lake, 8000 JEDEC means very high potential, maybe 12000 on G2? 16000 on G4? considering Arrow Lake is only 6400 JEDEC and most people using high end parts are able to do 9000

The thing that worries me is the recent leak for the core counts. 16P Cores, 32 ECores and 4LPECores. This sounds like 2 Compute tiles stuck together, Arrow Lake is already 8P+16E on 1 compute tile. This could cause the next chip to have AMD CCD latency issues if its on 2 different tiles.

Another thing is Zen 6 is moving to 12 cores per CCD, same goes with next gen consoles, game dev make games for consoles, if 12 cores on one die becomes the standard, 2x 8P+16E will have performance issues.

If this is the case, maybe Bartlett Lake will be the best chip until 2028 LOL

 

[Encrypted11]

ddr5 water cool even more needed than gpu, mine is ~44c when surfing edmw!

how was the temps just using the iceman ram cooler without water?

thinking of delidding my ddr5 for thicker heatsink

Even for my Z690 ITX that was on C34 (tier 2 memory scaling perf, not as tight as apex tier 1 memory scaling), 8000MHz stressapptest 2H up to 62C 1.6V sensor reading, real life was always less though.
7.2L ITX case, tested with side panels closed. with a 92mm asetek 645LT CLC and slip noctua.

Even if your RAMs read 55-60C sounding very hot it will still be running a tight profile well, rather than OS crapping out from RAM heat/instability.

Since 2023 this profile had no issues daily, barely turn off pc at all.

For normal home user on DIY PC with XMP or manual tunes (outside of JEDEC speeds), it is a good ~S$40 insurance against OS reinstall on SSD, saving you potential lost weekend time over saving the computer or lost data.