jogging and motivation thread

[WussRedXLi]

I worry that's how trainer think when they work with elite runners for too long. Most studies are done on elite runners on which is the optimum training regime. Very few on the gen pop. Their bio adaptation might be different from elite.
Jeff Galloway (famed for run-walk)is one of very rare trainer that design his training around gen pop despite him being an Olympian in his younger days.

I have only became aware of this recently when I started using this TrainAsOne AI adaptive trainer. It had prescribed a lot less mileage compare to one I used previously from the book Advance Marathoning. It's training philosophy is based on more shorter distance back to back rather the one super long LSD on a 7 days cycle. Rational was the conventional study of most periodization training were based on elite runners. It may not applies to gen pop. I thought I would hit the wall after 30km at SCSM 2033 since the longest LSD was only 26km. Guess what, I didn't hit the wall, and for the first time after so many years I was able to finish stronger with a 5:30min pace for the last km to finish line. Only walking was at the shear bridge which I made a strategic choice to conserve energy. Previously I would hit the wall at 35km, even though I followed the Pfitzinger's plan diligently till it's peak at 35km for a couple weeks. I walked most of the time after the wall till finish.

Actually it got me thinking......why don't concentrate other distances, like 21.1km. Still long enough to be shiok and considered long dstance (it is, even 10K is considered long distance to me), need gels and strategy. But not the short ones like 5km, 10km.

Then there is no wall problem already. No need to walk
Heck, even "just" racewalking has 50K as official event, so the long/mid/short distance compario or sgregation would never end. Ultras are usually trail / off-road type so might not be appealing to some.

My belief is that all distances are difficult in their own way, there is no easy distance. It's just a matter of timing in the end. Even 2.4K 3K is not easy and there is a component of endurance in it just a matter of % only.
Of coz even shorter distance track is another ball game, some might not like those.

 

[Ender]

Actually it got me thinking......why don't concentrate other distances, like 21.1km. Still long enough to be shiok and considered long dstance (it is, even 10K is considered long distance to me), need gels and strategy. But not the short ones like 5km, 10km.

Then there is no wall problem already. No need to walk
Heck, even "just" racewalking has 50K as official event, so the long/mid/short distance compario or sgregation would never end. Ultras are usually trail / off-road type so might not be appealing to some.

My belief is that all distances are difficult in their own way, there is no easy distance. It's just a matter of timing in the end. Even 2.4K 3K is not easy and there is a component of endurance in it just a matter of % only.
Of coz even shorter distance track is another ball game, some might not like those.

Timing, there will be a plateau, different for everyone, but you will know it when you reach there. If no talent like me, I have reached there very soon enough to know my timing will never improve for those shorter distances. I have mediocre natural Vo2max, and with the threshold and interval training I did in my early running days, I think I have reached my plateau. So the persuing in this shorter to improve timing will only give me disappointment if can't improve further . I include the occasional (rare) Threshold and Interval only to mitigate Vo2max decay due to aging, not for looking improvement of speed of shorter distance.

Distance the plateau for many is not there yet, and will be ongoing even when you are at your seniors age like me. I know I am the type that need challenge and progress to keep me going. Passion and health reasons are not enough for me to be consistent. It's only at 2023 SCSM that I feel I have unlock my no hitting the wall. Slow progress, but seeing results just affirm I will be training for the 2024 SCSM. I still have a timing goal for FM.

As for HM and 10km, ya more shiok to run in threshold. I will still join if the prices are cheap enough, coz my budget already gone to SCSM which is not cheap.

 

[sph777]

Timing, there will be a plateau, different for everyone, but you will know it when you reach there. If no talent like me, I have reached there very soon enough to know my timing will never improve for those shorter distances. I have mediocre natural Vo2max, and with the threshold and interval training I did in my early running days, I think I have reached my plateau. So the persuing in this shorter to improve timing will only give me disappointment if can't improve further . I include the occasional (rare) Threshold and Interval only to mitigate Vo2max decay due to aging, not for looking improvement of speed of shorter distance.

Distance the plateau for many is not there yet, and will be ongoing even when you are at your seniors age like me. I know I am the type that need challenge and progress to keep me going. Passion and health reasons are not enough for me to be consistent. It's only at 2023 SCSM that I feel I have unlock my no hitting the wall. Slow progress, but seeing results just affirm I will be training for the 2024 SCSM. I still have a timing goal for FM.

As for HM and 10km, ya more shiok to run in threshold. I will still join if the prices are cheap enough, coz my budget already gone to SCSM which is not cheap.

yeah the wall for me is the big issue. I think up to half still ok

 

[binbinpon]

Timing, there will be a plateau, different for everyone, but you will know it when you reach there. If no talent like me, I have reached there very soon enough to know my timing will never improve for those shorter distances. I have mediocre natural Vo2max, and with the threshold and interval training I did in my early running days, I think I have reached my plateau. So the persuing in this shorter to improve timing will only give me disappointment if can't improve further . I include the occasional (rare) Threshold and Interval only to mitigate Vo2max decay due to aging, not for looking improvement of speed of shorter distance.

Distance the plateau for many is not there yet, and will be ongoing even when you are at your seniors age like me. I know I am the type that need challenge and progress to keep me going. Passion and health reasons are not enough for me to be consistent. It's only at 2023 SCSM that I feel I have unlock my no hitting the wall. Slow progress, but seeing results just affirm I will be training for the 2024 SCSM. I still have a timing goal for FM.

As for HM and 10km, ya more shiok to run in threshold. I will still join if the prices are cheap enough, coz my budget already gone to SCSM which is not cheap.

For VO2 max, have you considered increasity the intensity of your workout, instead of distance?

IF HITT does not cut it, i don't see how running zone 2 more is gonna help much. Perhaps wearing a weighted vest may help. Starting with a small load like 2.5kg and slowly increase.

 

[Ender]

For VO2 max, have you considered increasity the intensity of your workout, instead of distance?

IF HITT does not cut it, i don't see how running zone 2 more is gonna help much. Perhaps wearing a weighted vest may help. Starting with a small load like 2.5kg and slowly increase.

Already done that in my early running days. Not the weighted running though. That's how I progress through my running journey. 5km pb, 10k pb, hm PB. All intense workout. All these plateau liao and I already 55, with declining VO2max compare to 15 years ago when I started. At this age is ok to take the less intense route and focus on new chapter, for this is my endurance phase. Currently just focus on getting my FM goal.
As for weighted running, mentioned here before, I prefer to keep training focus separate.

 

[Ender]

yeah the wall for me is the big issue. I think up to half still ok

You are a fast runner. Hit the wall still can get sub 4. Imagine if you have the time to properly trained to conquer the wall and ran all the way. A sub 3:30 easy for you.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Timing, there will be a plateau, different for everyone, but you will know it when you reach there. If no talent like me, I have reached there very soon enough to know my timing will never improve for those shorter distances. I have mediocre natural Vo2max, and with the threshold and interval training I did in my early running days, I think I have reached my plateau. So the persuing in this shorter to improve timing will only give me disappointment if can't improve further . I include the occasional (rare) Threshold and Interval only to mitigate Vo2max decay due to aging, not for looking improvement of speed of shorter distance.

Distance the plateau for many is not there yet, and will be ongoing even when you are at your seniors age like me. I know I am the type that need challenge and progress to keep me going. Passion and health reasons are not enough for me to be consistent. It's only at 2023 SCSM that I feel I have unlock my no hitting the wall. Slow progress, but seeing results just affirm I will be training for the 2024 SCSM. I still have a timing goal for FM.

As for HM and 10km, ya more shiok to run in threshold. I will still join if the prices are cheap enough, coz my budget already gone to SCSM which is not cheap.

Oh i see, so basically you have already gone down that route, and it's basically no go liao for the shorter distances.

Yeah the paid races.....damn sian. That's why i was reckoning if you could join park runs to get our racing fix, though is 5k, still mai hiam buay pai la.
Running clubs i believe not your cup of tea also ba, since you mentioned OTOT, not really for me also. Just that they'd hold 10k and HM distances, saw before on youtube.
I also dont really believe in paying for runs,j ust personal pref, AHM and Skechers are fine coz low cost. But of coz i fully understand there are organizing costs to cover, but not too much. Bo lui esp if overseas trips.


If talking about new chapter, you tried cycling already? No need road cycling, parks and PCNs are fine, then got hills, sentosa, coney island over at your side etc.
I really find it to be even more therapeutic for me in the long run and longer distances. I can run and like to run, same for racewalking (will revisit that soon when cycling might take a slightly backseat).....but i can never seem to go significantly > 1hr for running. Really tiring + perspiration too much, so even though i like it, the environment/conditions buay sai.

But cycling for 2-3hrs duration totally no issue and is actually enjoyable. 3.5 to 5th hour range starting to get taxing, ie true endurance mode kick in, it's really a grind then but still manageable.
Those 100-200km cycling trips not for me, i die first.
The typical 30-80 distances ok, esp when the sun is not there either cloud cover or b4 sunrise or after sunset, the wind cools you down and you wont feel that warm.
For my cheap chinese foldie, the RPE is something like 6 min pace or 10kmh running = 22-23kmh cycling.
So you get 22-23kmh wind flowing across you to cool your body rather than 10kmh. SG kinda temp and humidity % is just nice. With road bikes the overall resistance is less, you get more speed and so cover more distance. Another issue is this, SG is just this big, so a chinese foldie just nice to get us sports-oriented fellas a good training + hobby satisfaction.
Additionally, road bikes on roads dangerous la, we 50s already, not looking for that kind of kick.

 

[sph777]

You are a fast runner. Hit the wall still can get sub 4. Imagine if you have the time to properly trained to conquer the wall and ran all the way. A sub 3:30 easy for you.

I registered for sundown but hope I got time to train. If don't have then just walk I guess

 

[Ironside]

Once I wake up, I immediately go run 2.4km before breakfast. After a month, it is like a stroll in the park every time and I never use more than 五成功力 each session.

 

[milkiee]

I worry that's how trainer think when they work with elite runners for too long. Most studies are done on elite runners on which is the optimum training regime. Very few on the gen pop. Their bio adaptation might be different from elite.
Jeff Galloway (famed for run-walk)is one of very rare trainer that design his training around gen pop despite him being an Olympian in his younger days.

I have only became aware of this recently when I started using this TrainAsOne AI adaptive trainer. It had prescribed a lot less mileage compare to one I used previously from the book Advance Marathoning. It's training philosophy is based on more shorter distance back to back rather the one super long LSD on a 7 days cycle. Rational was the conventional study of most periodization training were based on elite runners. It may not applies to gen pop. I thought I would hit the wall after 30km at SCSM 2033 since the longest LSD was only 26km. Guess what, I didn't hit the wall, and for the first time after so many years I was able to finish stronger with a 5:30min pace for the last km to finish line. Only walking was at the shear bridge which I made a strategic choice to conserve energy. Previously I would hit the wall at 35km, even though I followed the Pfitzinger's plan diligently till it's peak at 35km for a couple weeks. I walked most of the time after the wall till finish.

you paid for this TrainAsOne app?

i downloaded it and it looks pretty interesting but the UI interface is really bad.

 

[Ender]

Oh i see, so basically you have already gone down that route, and it's basically no go liao for the shorter distances.

Yeah the paid races.....damn sian. That's why i was reckoning if you could join park runs to get our racing fix, though is 5k, still mai hiam buay pai la.
Running clubs i believe not your cup of tea also ba, since you mentioned OTOT, not really for me also. Just that they'd hold 10k and HM distances, saw before on youtube.
I also dont really believe in paying for runs,j ust personal pref, AHM and Skechers are fine coz low cost. But of coz i fully understand there are organizing costs to cover, but not too much. Bo lui esp if overseas trips.


If talking about new chapter, you tried cycling already? No need road cycling, parks and PCNs are fine, then got hills, sentosa, coney island over at your side etc.
I really find it to be even more therapeutic for me in the long run and longer distances. I can run and like to run, same for racewalking (will revisit that soon when cycling might take a slightly backseat).....but i can never seem to go significantly > 1hr for running. Really tiring + perspiration too much, so even though i like it, the environment/conditions buay sai.

But cycling for 2-3hrs duration totally no issue and is actually enjoyable. 3.5 to 5th hour range starting to get taxing, ie true endurance mode kick in, it's really a grind then but still manageable.
Those 100-200km cycling trips not for me, i die first.
The typical 30-80 distances ok, esp when the sun is not there either cloud cover or b4 sunrise or after sunset, the wind cools you down and you wont feel that warm.
For my cheap chinese foldie, the RPE is something like 6 min pace or 10kmh running = 22-23kmh cycling.
So you get 22-23kmh wind flowing across you to cool your body rather than 10kmh. SG kinda temp and humidity % is just nice. With road bikes the overall resistance is less, you get more speed and so cover more distance. Another issue is this, SG is just this big, so a chinese foldie just nice to get us sports-oriented fellas a good training + hobby satisfaction.
Additionally, road bikes on roads dangerous la, we 50s already, not looking for that kind of kick.

Lol, somehow no interest in cycling.

 

[Ender]

Oh i see, so basically you have already gone down that route, and it's basically no go liao for the shorter distances.

Yeah the paid races.....damn sian. That's why i was reckoning if you could join park runs to get our racing fix, though is 5k, still mai hiam buay pai la.
Running clubs i believe not your cup of tea also ba, since you mentioned OTOT, not really for me also. Just that they'd hold 10k and HM distances, saw before on youtube.
I also dont really believe in paying for runs,j ust personal pref, AHM and Skechers are fine coz low cost. But of coz i fully understand there are organizing costs to cover, but not too much. Bo lui esp if overseas trips.


If talking about new chapter, you tried cycling already? No need road cycling, parks and PCNs are fine, then got hills, sentosa, coney island over at your side etc.
I really find it to be even more therapeutic for me in the long run and longer distances. I can run and like to run, same for racewalking (will revisit that soon when cycling might take a slightly backseat).....but i can never seem to go significantly > 1hr for running. Really tiring + perspiration too much, so even though i like it, the environment/conditions buay sai.

But cycling for 2-3hrs duration totally no issue and is actually enjoyable. 3.5 to 5th hour range starting to get taxing, ie true endurance mode kick in, it's really a grind then but still manageable.
Those 100-200km cycling trips not for me, i die first.
The typical 30-80 distances ok, esp when the sun is not there either cloud cover or b4 sunrise or after sunset, the wind cools you down and you wont feel that warm.
For my cheap chinese foldie, the RPE is something like 6 min pace or 10kmh running = 22-23kmh cycling.
So you get 22-23kmh wind flowing across you to cool your body rather than 10kmh. SG kinda temp and humidity % is just nice. With road bikes the overall resistance is less, you get more speed and so cover more distance. Another issue is this, SG is just this big, so a chinese foldie just nice to get us sports-oriented fellas a good training + hobby satisfaction.
Additionally, road bikes on roads dangerous la, we 50s already, not looking for that kind of kick.

Actually you don't need > 1hr run, since you are not racing and not a Siao lang runner and you are pretty motivated just for health reason. Just follow Peter Attia's guide to use 80/20 principle for general aerobic fitness and maintaining a good VO2max . Guideline is the working family man friendly at more than 150min per week. But I feel that is just bare minimum, should do more.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Actually you don't need > 1hr run, since you are not racing and not a Siao lang runner and you are pretty motivated just for health reason. Just follow Peter Attia's guide to use 80/20 principle for general aerobic fitness and maintaining a good VO2max . Guideline is the working family man friendly at more than 150min per week. But I feel that is just bare minimum, should do more.

Coz > 1hr is the LSDs, so......that's why i mentioned > 1hr. It's not that i don't like running, just that i don't like to run > 1hr.
I still can run daily, of coz there would be 1 or 2 recovery type days in which the pace is quite slow, in fact it was walking. Just that now is overshadowed by cycling. Best is got 1 rest day of coz, that i fully understand. But as long as not injured and no issue, can lah.


But still, i like to ride to places like Sentosa or MBS to run, just that mileage is lower nowadays. Until maybe next time when i enter race or parkrun @ B1 ECP when TEL phase 4 is finally open, i really got interest to gun it again then i start to train again.

But wierd thing is that i can ride > 4hrs no issue. Wierd. Different dynamics / stimulus i guess. The wind, the need to nagivate/turn and siam pedestrians, follow roads, cross roads, play lights, music, if got chiobu can follow easily......blast music on the bluetooth speaker, can bring snacks and nice drinks along on my rear rack. Lotsa things. Now also playing with lights (rear tail lights), good hobby.

See, right now, makan dinner liao, today supposed to be rest day. I now contemplating to go out to ride again. Basket. Really should not, coz i overtrained over the long weekend according to the weekly training load on my watch even though quite a few sessions were low intensity liao (last friday i was on leave). On Sunday i went out 3 times, each time 1.5 to 2.5hrs.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Lol, somehow no interest in cycling.

During covid that time cycling was at its peak, i also no interest (many bikes all over the world all OOS). I power/racewalked that time. Transition to running was very easy.....i remember the first time i tried 1.6k (2 rounds of 800m) and ran it rather fast, i got a timing of 7 mins plus. The last time i ran was when i was still doing IPPT age 34/35 before i MRed at age 35, like 16 years ago.

Funny is now post covid era, then i got hooked....when many others are selling and dumping their bikes on carousell.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Once I wake up, I immediately go run 2.4km before breakfast. After a month, it is like a stroll in the park every time and I never use more than 五成功力 each session.

Excellent. I find that running before breakfast and first thing in the morning quite therapeutic. And it trains the discipline aspect. It is something you need to do one, no excuses.
For me last time i did this routine for nearly 1 year, brush teeth wash face with soap, pung sai, drink some water and go hoot liao. 3-4k usually. Not high mileage, but then i also got my home office commute for morning/lunch hr/evening which totals 4+ km which i would walk pretty fast and also jog, so upper Z1 lower Z2.
Weekends also mornings but slightly later.

Now also got morning sessions but lately coz of cooler weather since like late Nov, i opted for evening. Coz more hours. Even though mornings on weekdays i can wake up 5am range and go hoot.

 

[Ironside]

Excellent. I find that running before breakfast and first thing in the morning quite therapeutic. And it trains the discipline aspect. It is something you need to do one, no excuses.
For me last time i did this routine for nearly 1 year, brush teeth wash face with soap, pung sai, drink some water and go hoot liao. 3-4k usually. Not high mileage, but then i also got my home office commute for morning/lunch hr/evening which totals 4+ km which i would walk pretty fast and also jog, so upper Z1 lower Z2.
Weekends also mornings but slightly later.

Now also got morning sessions but lately coz of cooler weather since like late Nov, i opted for evening. Coz more hours. Even though mornings on weekdays i can wake up 5am range and go hoot.

I wake up at 5am. Then I meditate till 6am. Then I prepare to go run before breakfast. After I test this for a while, I research that the liver can store about 100g of glycogen and jogging regularly will increase glycogen storage in the lower limbs. By using these glycogen on an empty stomach will improve glucose metabolism. By meditating and exercising daily, I am always in a good mood.

 

[Kuudere]

3 x 1km intervals (track)

4.02
4.01
4.16

Average pace: 4.06/km

Not used to 1km repeats, but hopefully in the weeks to come, will be able to run more consistently.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Siao boh.....this one aiming to be pro ?

 

[WussRedXLi]

I wake up at 5am. Then I meditate till 6am. Then I prepare to go run before breakfast. After I test this for a while, I research that the liver can store about 100g of glycogen and jogging regularly will increase glycogen storage in the lower limbs. By using these glycogen on an empty stomach will improve glucose metabolism. By meditating and exercising daily, I am always in a good mood.

Yeah im used to running empty stomach too. But after that need to replenish at a wee bit after more intense orlonger sessions so as to prevent longer periods of starvation. Dont want any muscles to be broken down.

 

[Ironside]

Yeah im used to running empty stomach too. But after that need to replenish at a wee bit after more intense orlonger sessions so as to prevent longer periods of starvation. Dont want any muscles to be broken down.

Have to be careful about overtraining if there are other physical activities later in the day by eating enough.