jogging and motivation thread

[xllms]

Shorter distance only bro...... so still manageable in terms of training in that.
Dont know leh....generally folks as they get older they like longer endurance events more, and then if possible still got energy and no bonk/cramp then VTEC at the end.
But for me i just like to cut it short and just open VTEC, something like that.

Actually, also there is one aspect i believe in..... Since there is nothing much to "progressively overload", at least not in the distance realm so what is left is the pace realm, so in terms of distances-duration relationship it's easier for us to fit it into our work-family schedules. eg Long runs if you specialize 5k seriously 7-8k also can cut it. I think this is one major aspect.

Now i scale back a bit 3k you threshold run 5-6k already quite solid, VO2max or anaerobic intervals same. Wont take as much time, and the recovery aspect (the other 50-60%) also same same. Esp for us older guys, sure take longer.
Based on this training and recovery duration you already won 50% of the game liao. Remember, you can train a lot, but if under-recover that is it......not much different even if you cut training duration/volume by 50%.


ps. Also can take a bit into account the weather here. Shorter distance your body probably more difficult to suffer the effects of dehydration lah, affected by heat temps la, and below 10k even if you have not fueled properly also not big issue. But dont get me wrong, shorter distances got its nuances as well, and same those areas need to be trained. Just that i feel easier to fit into our working/family schedules here where work-life balance is quite the bonus rather than a norm.


But for cycling there are quite a few differences, that one i can go longer range. Brain wise i enjoy more and so naturally you would wanna do more volume at the very least (pull factor and get drawn to it instead of just needing to start and finish the session in the week) , and also more cooling, can last longer. How much and in what areas it carryies over to running i dont really know. Of coz got some shared differences like able to digest/absorb nutrition, heat adaptation over longer distances in that the body is heat soaked, mental fortitude, cardiopulmonary, muscle fibre composition of major muscle grps shared by both running/cycling. etc. Carry over i think at least on paper would be much easier if you do both running and cycling together. Pure true-blue cyclists usually you'd read cannot carry over to running that well.....and even if aerobically can do, their bones and esp tendons/fascia pecah first coz usually the case would not be anywhere progressively overload one.......ie a regular ok cyclist try doing a 10k and gun it in the way that they do their smash rides kinda RPE, yes initially maybe can run fast (heck even regular runners sure run fast, it takes heck loads of discipline to run easy paces man lol) , but then by 7-8th km start to pain liao, either walk then or even DNF.
There actually is a joke regarding cyclists doing running, and also swimmers too....yes some of them sub elites have crazy aerobic systems and their mitochondrial/aerobic energy systems might be solid.....but that's about it. Next few days bai kar bai chew.

totally get what you mean, but also need some baseline physical conditioning to do so. It is very fun to have short burst of speed until cannot take it, which most of us are no longer conditioned to do so.
Your sharing has reminded me to restart my interval training which has been non-existing since my busy period in March, April and then further neglect due to weather and laziness. Now i am suffering in the summer heat. lol
But knowing you are a late bloomer and can achieve such performance at your age, really hats off to you and give you the well-deserved respect. Also plant something in me that maybe i can try to work towards my prime days of 400m below 60s.

with regards to the cyclist joke, this is why i think Remco Evenepoel is quite an amazing athlete. Top Belgium teen footballer (captain), competed HM at 1:16:55 at age 16, probably the best time trialist in the professional cyclist circle and top 10 professional cyclist in the world.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Wow the 1st placed Jap xmm turned on turbo at 600m. Damn good sustained burst.

At 3.30s pace, I'm already punchek at 300m.

These paces/distance, prob it is good to start training VO2max levels of intensity esp if all along never train.
If starting from lower baselines, > 20% increases not impossible (seen 1 youtube eg, n=1 of coz but not sure how prevalent that could be in real life).
But how useful is that in real life that depends on ya. For cycling that could be quite useful in several scenarios be it race or just general road use.

 

[kkkkdllmkkkk]

can consider the following Qiaodan shoes
a) 领航600 (suitable for pace 6min/km and below, wide foot, good cushioning)
b) 幻影2.0 (lightweight stability shoe)
c) 强风3.0TR (non plated version of 强风，sort of a lightweight all-purpose trainer)
- i don't like the thick flat insole and have replaced a thinner, firmer insole with arch support for better stability
- if you want to try with nylon plated, can try 强风3 which is lighter and runs more naturally with the nylon plate. But i think 强风3 is a meant to run faster than your desired pace.

ya actually i backside itchy went to buy 强风3 with nylon plate, just to try how is it with slower pace... maybe i wait till 11/11, feel like buying red hare 8 pro and xtep 2000km....

actually u all got do lactate threshold training????

 

[WussRedXLi]

totally get what you mean, but also need some baseline physical conditioning to do so. It is very fun to have short burst of speed until cannot take it, which most of us are no longer conditioned to do so.
Your sharing has reminded me to restart my interval training which has been non-existing since my busy period in March, April and then further neglect due to weather and laziness. Now i am suffering in the summer heat. lol
But knowing you are a late bloomer and can achieve such performance at your age, really hats off to you and give you the well-deserved respect. Also plant something in me that maybe i can try to work towards my prime days of 400m below 60s.

Definitely need to be conditioned and progressively ease into it, but once you have done it, it becomes easier. It's the same for strength building or running or swimming. First few times you become introduced to something new sure terok.
Cycling got this really short VO2max training, 30 seconds max effort (more like nearly max effort, 8.5 to 9 RPE) and 15 secs recovery. Or 40/20 also can. Actually im not super anal about it, if latter reps you can only manage 1:1 work rest just take it la, or as usual just cut short if wanna play it safe.
Can give it a try, no need to do what 12-20 reps per set.......i feel even 6-8 also can. As long as exposed to such intensities that people would not have touched before, this could be a WIN as it is a new stimulus with "beginner gains" that are easy for you to pluck from.
Actually nothing new also, things like tabata HIIT more similar than different.

ps. Of coz still train your LT and dont totally neglect. As long as you hit all the high intensity bases (in this case VO2max and threshold) and then the aerobic base also built up, all is good. Later if you are endurance racing (comfortably over 1hr types) you can focus somewhat on tempo.
Your easy runs just run slow, real slow esp if longer distance runs, so that you can recover sufficient from such really hard session(s) per training week.....


edit - actually i experienced same for push ups. Initially was just doing high reps ie 1 dimensional training repeatedly, even if got decline for added resistance, sure improve but then plateau after a while. You can add sets to even 5-6 and maybe even train doubles /even triples in a day, still find it hard to progress.
Then you intro wide/diamond, explosive clapping push ups, strength bsaed within 8 reps with resistance bands, half reps, very fast half to 3/4 reps........man, you will be able to tease out much more and break plateau even with less time spent training. But give it time to adapt after trying something new of coz.

 

[xllms]

ya actually i backside itchy went to buy 强风3 with nylon plate, just to try how is it with slower pace... maybe i wait till 11/11, feel like buying red hare 8 pro and xtep 2000km....

actually u all got do lactate threshold training????

when i first started running, most of my runs are 5-6km and all out, which means i push myself to the limit in my threshold and end with extended anaerobic red zones for as long as possible. As I want to build up my base, i am trying to do more slow z2-3 with some last burst of fire in the last stretch. I am running in more relaxed attitude now than seeking time at the moment.

As for the shoes, i think the general cut of xtep shoes are slightly on the narrow side and 2000km visually appears to be the same. so if you have wide feet, do take note and check if they fit you well.

If you have placed your order for 强风3, do share with us on the shoe after trying them.

 

[kkkkdllmkkkk]

when i first started running, most of my runs are 5-6km and all out, which means i push myself to the limit in my threshold and end with extended anaerobic red zones for as long as possible. As I want to build up my base, i am trying to do more slow z2-3 with some last burst of fire in the last stretch. I am running in more relaxed attitude now than seeking time at the moment.

As for the shoes, i think the general cut of xtep shoes are slightly on the narrow side and 2000km visually appears to be the same. so if you have wide feet, do take note and check if they fit you well.

If you have placed your order for 强风3, do share with us on the shoe after trying them.

recently i concentrate alot on aerobic, hardly do any anaerobic.... for losing weight hahhahahahaha. 165cm and 85kg bui bui here

wah i got abit wide and flat feet.. i think singapore cant try xtep 2000km???


for 强风3, so far i have tried with slower pace 6 mins 30 secs/km to 7 mins /km and i felt the forefoot is quite firm and rear foot not that bouncy... tried to go for faster pace and it became more comfortable but the propulsion and bounce is not really there... i think this pair is quite good for beginners doing tempo run since it is quite cheap for a plated shoes...

as of now, bmai fly and NB rebel v4 are my favourite... really good for slow runners like me...

 

[WussRedXLi]

I use 800ml for aero and he uses cardboard for warmth.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Probably not so useful for 10k, HM and FM.

But if you are running below that and want to try something new, can try this. Lagi can do if you are medically cleared. Got other benefits as well.
If you are missing this type of stimulus at 95-100% RPE, it never hurts to try and see if there are any benefits even though some are more indirect. For eg, neuromuscular/CNS.
Furthermore, SIT is pretty time efficient, esp if you are able to incorporate it prior to your workouts.
In the most purist sense, no need to go beyond 10-12 seconds actually (see below vid which i found from Run Elite, his is just 8 secs). Some can extend to even 20 seconds if you want but the latter part of few seconds wont be considered as sprints coz more than likely your ATP-PC energy system would be depleted.....and tire you out even more for less benefits subsequently at such high RPE, so no need to lengthen it. Just 4 sets already works out ok for me. Any longer = more similar to microintervals @ VO2max than different.
In between the longish recovery periods (easily a few mins, HR needs to get back down to at least Z1 max) you can scroll your social media also lah. lol

First vid puts it very well -
"All the reasons that people think that they shouldn't sprint, are actually the reasons why they should sprint".

 

[sales69]

Probably not so useful for 10k, HM and FM.

But if you are running below that and want to try something new, can try this. Lagi can do if you are medically cleared. Got other benefits as well.
If you are missing this type of stimulus at 95-100% RPE, it never hurts to try and see if there are any benefits even though some are more indirect. For eg, neuromuscular/CNS.
Furthermore, SIT is pretty time efficient, esp if you are able to incorporate it prior to your workouts.
In the most purist sense, no need to go beyond 10-12 seconds actually (see below vid which i found from Run Elite, his is just 8 secs). Some can extend to even 20 seconds if you want but the latter part of few seconds wont be considered as sprints coz more than likely your ATP-PC energy system would be depleted.....and tire you out even more for less benefits subsequently at such high RPE, so no need to lengthen it. Just 4 sets already works out ok for me. Any longer = more similar to microintervals @ VO2max than different.
In between the longish recovery periods (easily a few mins, HR needs to get back down to at least Z1 max) you can scroll your social media also lah. lol

Thanks to your and Kuudere prompting, I also enjoy short sprints.

Sometimes warmup 5km. Then do hill 60m x 10 sets. Followed by 2k warmdown. Damn shagged!

Or after 8-10km. Do flat ground 80m x 6 to 8 sets. This actually feels refreshing.

Good thing about this training is I can more readily go into short turbo mode.

Also let the heart experience below 3.30 pace stress which is not possible otherwise.

 

[LWZ]

for some reason my Fitbit app went bonkers yesterday and turned 7km into 9 the route mapping looks like I was in a helicopter spinning out of control

 

[xllms]

I use 800ml for aero and he uses cardboard for warmth.

smart adaptation

 

[milkiee]

I also only finished one marathon. SCSM 2022. 3:45

Sundown 2023- tried but plantar was super pain. Fell out after 10km
SCSM 23- son born that same week so didn't sign up
SCSM 24- son had covid leading up, I myself had headache and fever, fell out at 18km to not risk it

SCSM 25: gonna try to sub 3:30

think u can easily do 3:30 with your sub 1:30 HM.

 

[sph777]

think u can easily do 3:30 with your sub 1:30 HM.

Have never sub 1:30 HM and don't think it is close haha. Aiming for 1:33 this sunday lazada

 

[hydeyoshi]

Will be running my first HM this Sunday.. only start running actively last Oct..

Any tips? Looking to do a sub 2hrs if possible..

Attempted a trial HM run before at 6.05min pace with avg HR 147..

 

[sph777]

Will be running my first HM this Sunday.. only start running actively last Oct..

Any tips? Looking to do a sub 2hrs if possible..

Attempted a trial HM run before at 6.05min pace with avg HR 147..

1) Do not get caught up with others pace at the start. Run your own race

2) Don't go out too fast. If not cannot sustain.

3) Bring energy gels and consume every 30 min or so

 

[hydeyoshi]

1) Do not get caught up with others pace at the start. Run your own race

2) Don't go out too fast. If not cannot sustain.

3) Bring energy gels and consume every 30 min or so

Yah.. I intend to run at my own pace..

For gels.. I thinking to bring 3.. eat at 7km and 14km.. the last gel will be spare if case need to eat..

Or should eat at 6km, 12km and 18km?

 

[Ender]

i going for sub 4 or below sub 430 at worst.

I still hope I could run a sub 4 full marathon one day .

Including me, that will be three of us with the same goal. Average pace 5:40 to meet 4 hours. So we have to go faster than that. Check point 21 km at 1:58 to 1:59 if able to negative split. Since it's 4 hours, we have to train til our zone 2 is 5:40 at least. If 5:40 is your zone 3, then very hard to achieve. ZOne 2 is the average pace you can sustain at for more than 3hours til legs break down, with proper refuelling and rehydration. That is what we paid SCSM for.
The leg break down (the wall) before 4 hours can happen even if 5:40 is your zone 2, coz lack of endurance training (single session long run >30km or low weekly mileage or lack of specificity training for long run), rehydration and refuelling strategy gone wrong, hot and humid weather, etc.

 

[Ender]

Definitely need to be conditioned and progressively ease into it, but once you have done it, it becomes easier. It's the same for strength building or running or swimming. First few times you become introduced to something new sure terok.
Cycling got this really short VO2max training, 30 seconds max effort (more like nearly max effort, 8.5 to 9 RPE) and 15 secs recovery. Or 40/20 also can. Actually im not super anal about it, if latter reps you can only manage 1:1 work rest just take it la, or as usual just cut short if wanna play it safe.
Can give it a try, no need to do what 12-20 reps per set.......i feel even 6-8 also can. As long as exposed to such intensities that people would not have touched before, this could be a WIN as it is a new stimulus with "beginner gains" that are easy for you to pluck from.
Actually nothing new also, things like tabata HIIT more similar than different.

ps. Of coz still train your LT and dont totally neglect. As long as you hit all the high intensity bases (in this case VO2max and threshold) and then the aerobic base also built up, all is good. Later if you are endurance racing (comfortably over 1hr types) you can focus somewhat on tempo.
Your easy runs just run slow, real slow esp if longer distance runs, so that you can recover sufficient from such really hard session(s) per training week.....


edit - actually i experienced same for push ups. Initially was just doing high reps ie 1 dimensional training repeatedly, even if got decline for added resistance, sure improve but then plateau after a while. You can add sets to even 5-6 and maybe even train doubles /even triples in a day, still find it hard to progress.
Then you intro wide/diamond, explosive clapping push ups, strength bsaed within 8 reps with resistance bands, half reps, very fast half to 3/4 reps........man, you will be able to tease out much more and break plateau even with less time spent training. But give it time to adapt after trying something new of coz.

My current training with TAO, has one workout call tabata workout. It's 1:1 work:rest ratio. usually 8 sets of 20-30 sec on and off. All out above vVo2max pace, and rest the same time. This happens like once ever 3 weeks. But it's not counted as part of the high intensity loading, coz the same week will have Threshold interval, of anaerobic interval.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Hou mai......

 

[WussRedXLi]

My current training with TAO, has one workout call tabata workout. It's 1:1 work:rest ratio. usually 8 sets of 20-30 sec on and off. All out above vVo2max pace, and rest the same time. This happens like once ever 3 weeks. But it's not counted as part of the high intensity loading, coz the same week will have Threshold interval, of anaerobic interval.

Once every 3 weeks possibly good enough for SCSM FM, got 1 x 30m Sheares bridge and if got another WCH again then that'd be +18m elevation. Is flatish overall but still got 2 notable mini obstacles.

Prob not counted as part of the high intensity workout load coz only 8 x 20-30s ie total work is 2.6min to 4 mins I guess.

For cycling, they go by the name "microburst intervals" and usually 1 method that I commonly come across is 3 blocks of 12 x 30 or 40 seconds, rest is half of the work. Or what they call 40/20s, 30/15s. Effort is 130% watts above 1hr FTP / threshold.
Supposed to be very good for any VO2max improvements and also help raise LT. It helps with courses/races that are more undulating and dynamic in nature.....maybe not so much for us amateur runners joggers racing locally (parkruns? lol basically flat) or even duathletes coz we are racing vs ourselves......but T100 duathlon quite undulating coz multiple loops of Sheares and Rochor/Ophir bridge climbs so...... Prob that is why got quite a few who are not used to giving out such power punches they needed to dismount and push bike (less energy efficient overall at that kind of not say super tough gradients in which bike vs running/walking equals same energy efficiency, but tough enough to present issues, but at least it gets you and the bike up ) But for those in cycling group smash rides or Malaysia races that has hills and more dynamic in nature (eg closing gaps), this is supposed to help greatly compared to more stead state threshold intervals.

So i guess depends on what you are after.

Bloody siong to follow strictly actually........i usually can only tahan 1:1 work rest maybe when fresh first block i still can tahan closer to 2:1. Quite brutal stuff mentally even if done once per week, but if got the mindset that it'd all end fast then it's still ok, coz the whole workout even with 1:1 instead of 2:1 is 3 blocks of 12 = 36 mins. Wld just be 27 mins iif 2:1. Total work is 18 mins.

edit - and oh yeah.....these are surgical strikes. Best to done somewhat sparingly max once per training week during on-season.