New Astrea V

[Toni90]

this is to my understanding as well. the sale of this bond is much more advantages to Azalea. the speedingbullet guy will be more well verse since iirc he did say he is from the pe side.

even if say we can only get 8k "max" from the ipo which seems to be a small amount to ppl here, I will still stay away from this mainly because I do not like the risk-reward and it does not fit into my portfolio. Having the money does not mean that you just buy it because you can, how it suits you is more important. You don't get buy a $8K tv when you already have one just because you can, there is no reason to. so if there are ppl out there who is like, since it is only 8k why not just get it, I would say skipping this is a better option imo

a product being well received by AI doesn't mean anything. Being an AI and investment savvy can be mutually exclusive. those in pb should know, it's all sales at the end of the day. (isn't it strange that the newspaper and all keep on saying "Temasek", "Temasek", "Temasek"? and the article even shows Temasek picture. it is all marketing)

all in all, there will always be two side of a trade. those who buy and those who didn't. if it work out, those who buy will laugh at those who missed their chance. if it didn't those who didn't buy will laugh at those buyer decision. I mean at the end of the day, there is no sure win or rather we will not know if it's sure win beforehand, so the best thing to do is to read both side arguments and make your own choice rather than shutting down whatever information which doesn't alight with your belief

Which bonds fit into your portfolio? How do you estimate/compare the risk-reward?

 

[klarklar]

What is the expected estimated allocation that a retail investor can get applying for Astrea V? My own estimation is at most $10k, probably around $5k.

I want to apply but don't know what's the optimum amount to apply. Don't want to over-apply since allocation is not likely to be a lot.

 

[yongsaver]

What is the expected estimated allocation that a retail investor can get applying for Astrea V? My own estimation is at most $10k, probably around $5k.

I want to apply but don't know what's the optimum amount to apply. Don't want to over-apply since allocation is not likely to be a lot.

based on the 50K thingy, looks like those applying 50K and above will go into tikam or binary mode first - yes or no. after that they allocate according to some ratio depending on demand. so got chance to get more since some applications eliminated. but also may not get anything at all if suay.

for those applying below 50K, it is straight away apply allocation ratio. so everyone sure get but get a little bit nia.

me not greedy type. but still wanna get something. so my strategy simple:

me apply 50K. wife apply 10K.

 

[BBCWatcher]

me not greedy type. but still wanna get something. so my strategy simple:
me apply 50K. wife apply 10K.

Bad strategy. The lottery applies from $50K. If you've applied for exactly $50K, you're in the lottery and may get $0. I don't think you can back out if you've applied already, and an additional order will only add to the $50K. And you might get your whole order filled, and you should really hope not unless your total net worth is at least S$1.25 million, and that's assuming you have nothing else in Astrea notes. ($50,000 of S$1.25 million would be 4%, a "rule of thumb" exposure limit for single issuer risk.)

However, if you've applied for $49,999(*) or less, you're assured some allocation. It might be $2,000 (for example), but some.

Congratulations to your wife, I guess. Who knows whether congratulations are in order for this particular security.

(*) You probably cannot order this exact amount. $49,000 seems to be the maximum viable order amount to be guaranteed some allocation.

Please read the prospectus carefully before investing, whereupon you may decide not to invest.

 

[klarklar]

Bad strategy. The lottery applies from $50K. If you've applied for exactly $50K, you're in the lottery and may get $0.

I don't think you can back out, and an additional order will add to the $50K.

However, if you've applied for $49,999(*) or less, you're assured some allocation. It might be $2,000 (for example), but some.

Congratulations to your wife, I guess. Who knows whether congratulations are in order for this particular security.

(*) You probably cannot order this exact amount. $49,000 seems to be the maximum viable order amount to be guaranteed some allocation.

My understanding is that funds below $50k is guaranteed some allocation. Funds above $50k is subjected to lottery. Anyone who bids above $50k should enjoy the guaranteed allocation. Doesn't seem fair and logical to me that someone who bids above $50k will be denied any allocation when others who bid lower get guaranteed allocation.

 

[yongsaver]

Bad strategy. The lottery applies from $50K. If you've applied for exactly $50K, you're in the lottery and may get $0. I don't think you can back out if you've applied already, and an additional order will only add to the $50K. And you might get your whole order filled, and you should really hope not unless your total net worth is at least S$1.25 million, and that's assuming you have nothing else in Astrea notes. ($50,000 of S$1.25 million would be 4%, a "rule of thumb" exposure limit for single issuer risk.)

However, if you've applied for $49,999(*) or less, you're assured some allocation. It might be $2,000 (for example), but some.

Congratulations to your wife, I guess. Who knows whether congratulations are in order for this particular security.

(*) You probably cannot order this exact amount. $49,000 seems to be the maximum viable order amount to be guaranteed some allocation.

Please read the prospectus carefully before investing, whereupon you may decide not to invest.

bro. who wants to apply for something and hope don't get?? too much time nothing better to do?

i want to be in the lottery, thats why i apply for 50K. even if i get it, it will not be 100% filled. it is still subject to balloting ratio cos it will be oversubscribed. even if 100% filled at 50K, i am more than happy to get it.

i also want to make sure i get something. just in case the 50K i dont get. thats why my wife is applying 10K.

my strategy takes care of both scenario

 

[BBCWatcher]

My understanding is that funds below $50k is guaranteed some allocation. Funds above $50k is subjected to lottery. Anyone who bids above $50k should enjoy the guaranteed allocation. Doesn't seem fair and logical to me that someone who bids above $50k will be denied any allocation when others who bid lower get guaranteed allocation.

Here's what the prospectus says:

Based on market feedback and depending on demand, Astrea V plans to allocate valid applications as follows:
a) all applications of less than S$50,000 will be allocated in full or in part;
b) applications of S$50,000 or more will be balloted, with successful applicants allocated in full or in part.

Astrea V reserves the right to change its allocation plan.

Your hypothesis is an interesting one, but it's not consistent with the Astrea V prospectus.

There is some logic here. The idea is that if you can afford to part with $50,000 or more -- and you do have to pledge all these dollars, up front -- then you aren't going to be all that disappointed when you don't get an allocation of $4,000 (for example). If you really want the retail-retail allocation, then place an order for something more reasonable.

bro. who wants to apply for something and hope don't get?? too much time nothing better to do?

i want to be in the lottery, thats why i apply for 50K. even if i get it, it will not be 100% filled. it is still subject to balloting ratio cos it will be oversubscribed. even if 100% filled at 50K, i am more than happy to get it.

But you (personally) are likely to get nothing, actually. How likely, we'll see, but likely.

i also want to make sure i get something. just in case the 50K i dont get. thats why my wife is applying 10K.

OK, but you could have each bid $10K (for example) and both ended up with $4,000 (for example), total $8,000. If you're in for $50,000 and $10,000, then your wife is going to get the $4,000 (example allocation) and you're likely to get nothing. (Actually less than nothing because you're out $2, the nonrefundable application fee, plus the lost interest while the funds are applied. No, there's no refund of the fee if you don't get an allocation -- at least, there's no such refund mentioned in the prospectus.)

It's a lottery gamble, of course. I hope it works out the way you'd like.

Frankly, I don't think anybody ought to get excited about this offering.

 

[klarklar]

Astrea V Prospectus wrote:
Based on market feedback and depending on demand, Astrea V plans to allocate valid applications as follows:
a) all applications of less than S$50,000 will be allocated in full or in part;
b) applications of S$50,000 or more will be balloted, with successful applicants allocated in full or in part.

Astrea V reserves the right to change its allocation plan.

This sounds like unfair discrimination against rich people. Even IRAS treat the rich more fairly since high taxes apply only on income above certain threshold and not on the entire income (which is what Astrea V issuers are doing). Rather surprised that private equity issuers are more socialist than PAP. LOL.

 

[bright_84]

This sounds like unfair discrimination against rich people. Even IRAS treat the rich more fairly since high taxes apply only on income above certain threshold and not on the entire income (which is what Astrea V issuers are doing). Rather surprised that private equity issuers are more socialist than PAP. LOL.

It's got nothing to do with discrimination. It's to facilitate trading liquidity.

 

[hwckhs]

This sounds like unfair discrimination against rich people. Even IRAS treat the rich more fairly since high taxes apply only on income above certain threshold and not on the entire income (which is what Astrea V issuers are doing). Rather surprised that private equity issuers are more socialist than PAP. LOL.

Perhaps this method will allow ppl who apply below $50k to get more than the previous Astrea IV? To appease the masses?

The allocation strategy is made known up front. If the balloting is discriminating, then those who apply above $50k voluntarily wants to be discriminated. Can't blame Astrea.

 

[w1rbelw1nd]

I doubt reading the prospectus is enough for people to understand the illiquidity of the underlying assets.

Bad strategy. The lottery applies from $50K. If you've applied for exactly $50K, you're in the lottery and may get $0. I don't think you can back out if you've applied already, and an additional order will only add to the $50K. And you might get your whole order filled, and you should really hope not unless your total net worth is at least S$1.25 million, and that's assuming you have nothing else in Astrea notes. ($50,000 of S$1.25 million would be 4%, a "rule of thumb" exposure limit for single issuer risk.)

However, if you've applied for $49,999(*) or less, you're assured some allocation. It might be $2,000 (for example), but some.

Congratulations to your wife, I guess. Who knows whether congratulations are in order for this particular security.

(*) You probably cannot order this exact amount. $49,000 seems to be the maximum viable order amount to be guaranteed some allocation.

Please read the prospectus carefully before investing, whereupon you may decide not to invest.

 

[sacredrays]

This sounds like unfair discrimination against rich people. Even IRAS treat the rich more fairly since high taxes apply only on income above certain threshold and not on the entire income (which is what Astrea V issuers are doing). Rather surprised that private equity issuers are more socialist than PAP. LOL.

rich people apply for the private placement liao..

the public one is for getting more different bond holders for liquidity requirement.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Astrea IV has proven to be highly illiquid on the SGX, with wide bid/ask spreads. That's not unusual, of course. There's plenty of thinly, notionally traded stuff on the SGX.

*IF* you try to buy some Astrea V securities, then you should be well prepared to hold them to maturity. Whether you actually do or not is a separate question, but even with the $50,000+ lottery feature this isn't going to an instrument with narrow bid/ask spreads.

 

[BBCWatcher]

If the balloting is discriminating, then those who apply above $50k voluntarily wants to be discriminated.

*AT* or above $50,000. You have to apply for strictly less than $50,000 (i.e. $49,000 or less) to avoid the lottery.

If you apply for exactly $50,000, you're in the lottery and might (or even probably will) end up with nothing(*), along with the many other people who misread the prospectus and applied for exactly $50,000.

Please. Read. The. Prospectus. CAREFULLY. BEFORE. Investing. And then don't invest unless you're absolutely convinced you should.

(*) Less than zero allocation. You have to pay a nonrefundable $2 fee to apply, plus you lose the interest on your $50,000 between the time it's deducted and the time it's refunded. Yay, Astrea!

 

[BBCWatcher]

For those of you who want to enter Astrea V's $50,000-or-more allocation lottery -- I don't think you should, but if you do -- then I wouldn't apply for exactly $50,000. If you do that you're going to be lumped in with all the jokers who misread the prospectus, and you're going to have an equal lottery chance at the lowest partial allocation tier within the lottery.

No, instead I'd try to apply for what might be the next higher allocation tier. Something like $61,000, for example. Or even $101,000 if you're brave. Then you might get another $1,000 or $2,000 of allocation if you happen to win the lottery. You'll still have an equal chance of winning the lottery, which may not be a great chance given the numerous $50,000 "jokers" in the mix, but you could try.

....But who cares, really. It's a completely unexciting offer, and you have myriad other, generally more attractive ways of saving and prudently investing available every day, many discussed in this forum.

 

[bright_84]

For those of you who want to enter Astrea V's $50,000-or-more allocation lottery -- I don't think you should, but if you do -- then I wouldn't apply for exactly $50,000. If you do that you're going to be lumped in with all the jokers who misread the prospectus, and you're going to have an equal lottery chance at the lowest partial allocation tier within the lottery.

No, instead I'd try to apply for what might be the next higher allocation tier. Something like $61,000, for example. Or even $101,000 if you're brave. Then you might get another $1,000 or $2,000 of allocation if you happen to win the lottery. You'll still have an equal chance of winning the lottery, which may not be a great chance given the numerous $50,000 "jokers" in the mix, but you could try.

....But who cares, really. It's a completely unexciting offer, and you have myriad other, generally more attractive ways of saving and prudently investing available every day, many discussed in this forum.

Agreed. But most importantly, know what you're buying and don't buy simply because everyone is talking about this.

 

[limpoop]

rich people apply for the private placement liao..

the public one is for getting more different bond holders for liquidity requirement.

private placement is extremely hard to get even for 1,000 units

i applied and got nothing, at least for public offer, everyone will get something

 

[limpoop]

For those of you who want to enter Astrea V's $50,000-or-more allocation lottery -- I don't think you should, but if you do -- then I wouldn't apply for exactly $50,000. If you do that you're going to be lumped in with all the jokers who misread the prospectus, and you're going to have an equal lottery chance at the lowest partial allocation tier within the lottery.

No, instead I'd try to apply for what might be the next higher allocation tier. Something like $61,000, for example. Or even $101,000 if you're brave. Then you might get another $1,000 or $2,000 of allocation if you happen to win the lottery. You'll still have an equal chance of winning the lottery, which may not be a great chance given the numerous $50,000 "jokers" in the mix, but you could try.

....But who cares, really. It's a completely unexciting offer, and you have myriad other, generally more attractive ways of saving and prudently investing available every day, many discussed in this forum.

if based on 4, from $101k to $1m you will get 8k units

 

[SibehHL]

So many MM experts posting long response on why the average Joe should not buy this.....

But strangely it will be oversubscribed by many times, not just ordinary retail investors but institutional investors as well.....

By the way, the word unexciting is good isn’t it? Want excitement, go join the Noble or Hyflux crowd

 

[focus1974]

private placement is extremely hard to get even for 1,000 units

i applied and got nothing, at least for public offer, everyone will get something

need to over-apply to get some.

example, buy $1mil ...
you might only get $250k.


But I am not interested in structured bonds .. I am all for plain vanilla bonds.