[Official] SingTel SIM Only Plans

[xiaofan]

IMHO.
Actually I am interested in what are the actual issues.
Sometimes is technology limitation - 4G and 5G does things differently and the number of users each technology can support is different.

1) It is same for 4G or 5G, if you have limited space to deploy the base stations.

That seems to be the problem for the underground MRT stations in the CBD areas, which cause problems for all providers, and M1 can be better than SingTel and StarHub sometimes due to less subscribers on the network.

I have seen one good explanation from Reddit. I need to dig it out.

2) But in a recent Facebook video posted by WP MP Gerald Giam about long term dead zones, the answer from SMS TKH is very bad claiming "MNOs typical take six months to enhance coverage, and over the past three years, there are no persistent signal gaps within MRT network have been remained unrectified".

From this kind of altitude by IMDA and MDDI, I guess the issues will be there for very long...
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1AhhLx9LrS/

3) Just as a comparison, the answer from Mr Jeffrey Siow, the Acting Minister for Transport, to MP Gerrald Giam's question about Single Decker Bus during peak hours are much better. I do not like Single Decker Bus during peak hours myself but at least the answer sounds reasonable.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1DHJCGWNer/

 

[xiaofan]

I have seen one good explanation from Reddit. I need to dig it out.

The following seems to be a good one.

It even answers why my wife and I got good signals on the Circle Line with the SingTel S$15.28 plan.

So LTA is part of the problem and Mr Seow can not run away from the issue along with Ms Teo.



******

1. The Distributed Antenna System in the train tunnels and stations, as I'm told, is maintained by LTA and not the telcos themselves. The telcos just hook up their baseband units to it. It's probably not that easy to get new antennas and base stations installed without significant cost and administrative overhead. The only deviation I know of is Singtel, who has their own 5G micro-cells within the Circle Line stations (and not in the tunnels as far as I know).
2. There's no point to "over-cater" infra and bandwidth to support peak hours which only last between 7:30 am - 9:30 am and 6 to 8 pm. After all, how long are you going to stay on the train anyway? Mobile connectivity works pretty well outside those hours.
3. Spectrum is finite. Each telco only has so much MHz of spectrum they can use. Each connected device demands either a certain amount of frequency (FDD) or a certain amount of time (TDD) to transmit and/or receive. Don't forget protocol overheads when switching between cells (happens quite a bit since you're moving so quickly). And if you have more cells, you're more likely to run into things like co-channel interference (among other types of interference) since there's only so much spectrum to split amongst the cells.
4. Each train can contain 1.6k passengers (on the 6 car trains). During peak hours, it's probably statistically possible to have >3.2k transmitting radios in the range of 1 cell (assuming one train each in opposite directions). Nowadays, it's also possible that each passenger has more than 1 phone, so that number could be much higher in real life.

If it's urgent, just make a normal phone call (and not a call on an OTT app such as Telegram or WhatsApp). PSTN/VoLTE phone calls will always work regardless of congestion, because phone calls have a higher priority as compared to data traffic. The cell will drop data traffic in favor of VoLTE call traffic during periods of congestion.

 

[xiaofan]

From the above Reddit as well, from a former insider.

*****
too much to explain here. will try to share bit of details

1. Every phone hook up to a cell access point or station. the cone thingy you notice at the station or underground. all this CAS connect to one mobile cell station at the CE room. imagine how much load can it handle when 200 to 300 on going user swarm the station. there are too many overlapping cell around. it all depends on your mobile phone modem to "decide" which cell is the strongest to lock on via VSSI and +5db to -40db.
2. Station operated by operator. Telco infra installed by telco. works need to be approved by LTA and operator (SMRT, SBST).
3. In the tunnel. how you get the network connectivity is via the Leaky cable installed along side the tunnel. you can see those black thick cable. each cable carries multiple frequency spectrum thru the tunnel for mobile cell connectivity and public safety coommunication (SPF and SCDF).

Try to illustrate. for sample

Woodleigh to Serangoon is 10km apart. Serangoon to Kovan is 10km apart. Woodleigh cell will last until 5km between woodleigh and serangoon. moving from woodleigh to serangoon. when the train, mobile phone or walkie reach that point. the RSSI will drop -5db and lock on to the next cell which is Serangoon. you will get 42db something like that.

so imagine every morning 7 to 8am. full peak hour. the entire telecom there is overloaded. bandwidth will be starved.

4. Telecom communication equipment are sensitive equipment that must not interfere with trainborne signnaling equipment. so most of the equipment are EMI shield. thats explains why some places in the underground station has no reception. there is a reason for that.

Summary. in singapore, our network cell coverage is very good underground. if you cannot get a decent data connection. just put your phone down and enjoy the peak hour. Please try london tube. by the time i walk down to platform level at picadilly station, there is no network coverage. most of the London Tube has no network coverage.

so for this, i sincerely appreciate the coverage and my former colleagues for maintaining the cellular coverage for underground stations.

Sign off
Raccoon!

 

[xiaofan]

So yes there are for sure technical and practical issues and multiple parties involved. Maybe SMS TKH can be more frank and not to shrug off the issues just like that ..

Not an expert here. Just throwing out an idea. Maybe one potential solution is to deploy things like Wireless SGx in the trains.

 

[xiaofan]

IMHO.
Actually I am interested in what are the actual issues.
Sometimes is technology limitation - 4G and 5G does things differently and the number of users each technology can support is different.

old shared antenna that's what m1 told me

IMHO.
Eh... elaborate? Old shared antenna e.g. 3G/4G better?

no idea thats what they said when i asked maxx why the reception is so bad underground EW line. I am not a Telco network engineer =)

The M1 Maxx answer seems to be in line with the Reddit answers saying the following. Kudos to the Maxx support staff.

******

1. The Distributed Antenna System in the train tunnels and stations, as I'm told, is maintained by LTA and not the telcos themselves. The telcos just hook up their baseband units to it. It's probably not that easy to get new antennas and base stations installed without significant cost and administrative overhead. The only deviation I know of is Singtel, who has their own 5G micro-cells within the Circle Line stations (and not in the tunnels as far as I know).

 

[keenklee]

1) It is same for 4G or 5G, if you have limited space to deploy the base stations.

That seems to be the problem for the underground MRT stations in the CBD areas, which cause problems for all providers, and M1 can be better than SingTel and StarHub sometimes due to less subscribers on the network.

I have seen one good explanation from Reddit. I need to dig it out.

2) But in a recent Facebook video posted by WP MP Gerald Giam about long term dead zones, the answer from SMS TKH is very bad claiming "MNOs typical take six months to enhance coverage, and over the past three years, there are no persistent signal gaps within MRT network have been remained unrectified".

From this kind of altitude by IMDA and MDDI, I guess the issues will be there for very long...
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1AhhLx9LrS/

3) Just as a comparison, the answer from Mr Jeffrey Siow, the Acting Minister for Transport, to MP Gerrald Giam's question about Single Decker Bus during peak hours are much better. I do not like Single Decker Bus during peak hours myself but at least the answer sounds reasonable.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1DHJCGWNer/

IMHO.
The key difference is that the handover and number of users a base station can support is already vastly different.

 

[neptunesea]

From the above Reddit as well, from a former insider.

*****
too much to explain here. will try to share bit of details

1. Every phone hook up to a cell access point or station. the cone thingy you notice at the station or underground. all this CAS connect to one mobile cell station at the CE room. imagine how much load can it handle when 200 to 300 on going user swarm the station. there are too many overlapping cell around. it all depends on your mobile phone modem to "decide" which cell is the strongest to lock on via VSSI and +5db to -40db.
2. Station operated by operator. Telco infra installed by telco. works need to be approved by LTA and operator (SMRT, SBST).
3. In the tunnel. how you get the network connectivity is via the Leaky cable installed along side the tunnel. you can see those black thick cable. each cable carries multiple frequency spectrum thru the tunnel for mobile cell connectivity and public safety coommunication (SPF and SCDF).

Try to illustrate. for sample

Woodleigh to Serangoon is 10km apart. Serangoon to Kovan is 10km apart. Woodleigh cell will last until 5km between woodleigh and serangoon. moving from woodleigh to serangoon. when the train, mobile phone or walkie reach that point. the RSSI will drop -5db and lock on to the next cell which is Serangoon. you will get 42db something like that.

so imagine every morning 7 to 8am. full peak hour. the entire telecom there is overloaded. bandwidth will be starved.

4. Telecom communication equipment are sensitive equipment that must not interfere with trainborne signnaling equipment. so most of the equipment are EMI shield. thats explains why some places in the underground station has no reception. there is a reason for that.

Summary. in singapore, our network cell coverage is very good underground. if you cannot get a decent data connection. just put your phone down and enjoy the peak hour. Please try london tube. by the time i walk down to platform level at picadilly station, there is no network coverage. most of the London Tube has no network coverage.

so for this, i sincerely appreciate the coverage and my former colleagues for maintaining the cellular coverage for underground stations.

Sign off
Raccoon!

Every phone hook up to a cell access point or station. the cone thingy you notice at the station or underground. all this CAS connect to one mobile cell station at the CE room. imagine how much load can it handle when 200 to 300 on going user swarm the station.

so imagine every morning 7 to 8am. full peak hour. the entire telecom there is overloaded. bandwidth will be starved.

4. Telecom communication equipment are sensitive equipment that must not interfere with trainborne signnaling equipment. so most of the equipment are EMI shield. thats explains why some places in the underground station has no reception. there is a reason for that.

I do not think these are real issues, as far as i have traveled and read, modern urban rail systems overseas do not suffer from such issues and rarely have areas without internet connection like EWL City hall - Outram Park.

The biggest issue I see is with bandwidth and the lack of n78 deployment in MRT tunnel.
China, India, Japan, South Korea among others have already deployed 5G on the n78 band inside their metro tunnels for years now. Since our MRT uses exclusively imported equipment, I doubt n78 cellular radios would interfere with signaling hardware.

Given the public's poor perception on our MRT's reliability, it may not be surprising if LTA/SMRT/SBS isn't taking this issue up seriously. However that is no excuse for neglect.

If LTA prefers to continue using leaky coaxial cables instead of allowing telcos to install small cells, it may be beneficial for LTA to set up a multi operator RAN instead of having each telco hook up their own transmitters to the cables.

 

[laokorkor]

dev at singtel earn how much?? they low ball and cut cost is it?

looks quite sloppy work that business needs not comply with technical work

I'm a software engineer. I can't tell you a software engineer at Singtel earns how much. For me as a software engineer, base salary plus bonus/insurance/employer CPF, my yearly package at a System Integrator is around 110k to120k SGD. That's around a median pay of an average software engineer.

So, Singtel has to sell lots of 15 SGD mobile contracts to pay for a SWE. Unfortunately, companies with complex software system have to take calculated risks, cos "perfect" software is unaffordable.

But my wife does take MRT frequently during morning peak hours. She is telling me no issues with the SingTel S$15.28 plan, except minor issues at Lakeside MRT occasionally (which I suspect to be related to the aging iPhone 14 512GB version she is using).

I'm on 15 SGD Singtel line. On a typical 7:30am to 8:30am travel on EWL from Pioneer MRT till CBD/East side, Tiktok/Udemy/Youtube all smooth until a brief stretch of 1-to-2 minutes around Outram Park MRT. I really can't blame the outage as Outram Park MRT is the confluence of 3 lines. So, the number of people streaming videos should be exceptional at this point of the EWL.

 

[xiaofan]

I'm on 15 SGD Singtel line. On a typical 7:30am to 8:30am travel on EWL from Pioneer MRT till CBD/East side, Tiktok/Udemy/Youtube all smooth until a brief stretch of 1-to-2 minutes around Outram Park MRT. I really can't blame the outage as Outram Park MRT is the confluence of 3 lines. So, the number of people streaming videos should be exceptional at this point of the EWL.

Good to hear that. Just wondering which phone you are using? Somehow I hear that iPhone users may have a bit of more issues due to relatively poor signal reception compared to Android phones.

And as per my own testing (not morning peak hours), NSL City Hall to Orchard may be worse than EWL Outram Park to City Hall.

 

[laokorkor]

Good to hear that. Just wondering which phone you are using? Somehow I hear that iPhone users may have a bit of more issues due to relatively poor signal reception compared to Android phones.

And as per my own testing (not morning peak hours), NSL City Hall to Orchard may be worse than EWL Outram Park to City Hall.

SS Z fold 7 since September last year. SS Z fold 5 prior to that.

To hedge against Singtel hiccups again, I further subscribed to maxx 5G (12 SGD) yesterday. 2 esim on a smartphone should be fail safe. Lol!

 

[AMD_Duron]

SS Z fold 7 since September last year. SS Z fold 5 prior to that.

To hedge against Singtel hiccups again, I further subscribed to maxx 5G (12 SGD) yesterday. 2 esim on a smartphone should be fail safe. Lol!

Quite safe TBH. Enjoy!

 

[tidus792]

Those who sign up for the Senior Plan at $6 (including GST), better check your bill.

I realised that in my Dad's latest bill, it was $6.01 (including GST) instead of $6.

I kenna again 6.01. I'm going to let it go cos it's 1c.
Just want you to know yours is not an isolated case.

 

[xiaofan]

SS Z fold 7 since September last year. SS Z fold 5 prior to that.

To hedge against Singtel hiccups again, I further subscribed to maxx 5G (12 SGD) yesterday. 2 esim on a smartphone should be fail safe. Lol!

This is a good combination.

M1 Maxx 5G is pretty okay based on my own testing (used to be S$10 per month). M1 5G coverage is not too bad. M1 4G network coverage is not that good but the good thing is that it is not congested. So it can be a good backup for Singtel S$15.28 plan.

 

[netzach]

Those who sign up for the Senior Plan at $6 (including GST), better check your bill.

I realised that in my Dad's latest bill, it was $6.01 (including GST) instead of $6.

you may think that I giam siap. But if Singtel advertise $6 (contract also stated $6 including GST), then the bill should be $6 instead of $6.01.

For the record, my mum's SIMBA senior plan bill is flat $5 per month, not $5.01 due to GST rounding nonsense.

So I complained to the Singtel CSO who say will try to waive $0.01 this time, but subsequent months need to ask again for the waiver, which is plain nonsense.

then for the recent outage, their compensation is mere 1GB of data for 1 month, which is also pathetic.

I kenna again 6.01. I'm going to let it go cos it's 1c.
Just want you to know yours is not an isolated case.

my dad's Singtel Senior SG60 have been $6.01 all the while iirc. but didn't bother about it at all.
$0.01.... there's no reason to waste time to find the CSO, write e-mails, call the stupid hotline (wait for don't how long)....for real.

 

[netzach]

btw, the SG60 plan if the contract end already, would revert to $12 hor?
basket. ST only offer new subscribers and porting-in $6

https://www.singtel.com/personal/pr...ampaign=15jan-sop-sg60-seniors-marketing-page

no welfare for re-contracts....~ bad!

 

[keenklee]

btw, the SG60 plan if the contract end already, would revert to $12 hor?
basket. ST only offer new subscribers and porting-in $6

https://www.singtel.com/personal/pr...ampaign=15jan-sop-sg60-seniors-marketing-page

no welfare for re-contracts....~ bad!

IMHO.
Singtel is like that. Need to port out and port in.

 

[netzach]

IMHO.
Singtel is like that. Need to port out and port in.

ya......damn...no incentive to stay...at least for the SG60/Senior tier plan.....

 

[keenklee]

ya......damn...no incentive to stay...at least for the SG60/Senior tier plan.....

IMHO.
They also make it more expensive to stay for some of my plans. Like my Heya convert to Singtel Hi

 

[netzach]

basket....lately ST services also Fked up lol...think gonna jump over to SH already once my dad's SG60 contract is up lol

 

[netzach]

Ok...gonna jump over to SH once done with Singtel SG60 Senior 1-year contract lol.
Singtel $6 would only be for new sign-ups and porting-in....
SH with PAssion is only $6/month with no contract....downside is the roaming data is 1GB only....damn.
1GB good for day trips to JB City Square... but if go further down KL for a couple of days might need e-SIM from Shopee already