Parc Greenwich EC

[1993newbie]

https://www.99.co/singapore/insider...SQdSq5E7jY_YMXlx8maA9xBkb-5xg0xa7TpRnfjtCarjU

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[wetdreamx]

https://www.99.co/singapore/insider...SQdSq5E7jY_YMXlx8maA9xBkb-5xg0xa7TpRnfjtCarjU

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True though….

 

[skpuppy]

True though….

Tell that to those bullish EC buyers

 

[JJLim2020]

https://www.99.co/singapore/insider...SQdSq5E7jY_YMXlx8maA9xBkb-5xg0xa7TpRnfjtCarjU

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I bought EC over condo because
1. It's about 200psf cheaper than condo, so I can use the same money buy bigger unit
2. Can live in HDB flat for 3+ years waiting for TOP comfortably without paying ABSD, save 100k+ rental compare to sell HDB and rent as no money to pay ABSD
3. Enjoy the price appreciation of HDB flat while waiting for TOP, about 50k to 100k for my case

For first timer better buy resale HDB or resale condo, no need waste life wait long long

 

[Senayan]

Tell that to those bullish EC buyers

Those buyer have hidden agenda ma, ownerself praise ownself. Come to think about it piermont grand launched more than 2 years ago at about 1100 to 1200psf , greenwich launched 2 years later the also around 1100 to 1200psf. Probably the developer take into consideration that Fernvale located at the outskirt more ulu part of sengkang. Far from mrt and more ulu does play a part in pricing

 

[momoeagle]

Thanks.

u bought too?

Decided not to in the end due to multiple reasons, including proximity of within 2km of current HDB to my choice primary school, and that I am probably using the $ instead for business expansion hopefully.

My queue number was good. Was a first time getting a queue number, so quite fun though lol

 

[momoeagle]

Those buyer have hidden agenda ma, ownerself praise ownself. Come to think about it piermont grand launched more than 2 years ago at about 1100 to 1200psf , greenwich launched 2 years later the also around 1100 to 1200psf. Probably the developer take into consideration that Fernvale located at the outskirt more ulu part of sengkang. Far from mrt and more ulu does play a part in pricing

For drivers, PG might be quite a nightmare when exiting TPE towards Changi, exit into Punggol Way in evening time.
The queue to exit is really long every day.

For Ola, only coming back from TPE towards CTE, exit Sengkang East Way side, may be heavier traffic. But the incidence is lesser. Only the queue to turn right around SKGH can be very long.

 

[momoeagle]

New normal for EC avg >1200 psf

quite a big jump within last 5 years. (800 to 1200)

time to increase income ceiling

In the interest of our govt to increase income ceiling. Because it shows that median income is increasing.
That's why service business also increase prices accordingly.

 

[momoeagle]

Have anyone calculated their break even in terms of psf after MOP?
Let‘s say currently you have a HDB that can sell for $500k but totally paid off. Every month you paying conservancy charges of $85? Also property tax negligible $200?

Now you decided to upgrade to any EC say whatever Parc or Ola
(1) Downpayment cpf/ cash ~ $$300k
(2) Buyer stamp duty ~ $32k
(3) Resale levy ~ $45k
(4) Interest ~ $43k ($850k loan at 1% interest)
(5) Property tax ~ $10k ($2k a year)

If you buy at $1200 psf, min $1300psf to break even? Maybe 10 years can hit $1600psf. Earn about $300k over 10 years. If interest rate increase, maybe left $200k for all the risk of leveraging

All these exclude mortgage insurance, legal fees, conservancy charges etc….

Yes, I was one such person to have calculated. HDB can sell for $600+k, left $130k loan, so about the same as you.

We have enough in cash in fixed deposits at the moment for downpayment, and offloading some stocks for (2) and (3). But my consideration is this, vs first timer, 2nd timers resale levy would have increased the average purchase price to $1.25k psf. Resale levy is considered in as I consider difference between EC vs PC.

After 10 years, you would have probably paid down ~25% of your loan I think, with majority of amt going into interest. So for 1.2mil property (that is rather small in size nowadays, 4rm flat size),
$350k downpayment + $32k BSD + $45k resale levy + 197k of loan paid = 624k paid after 10 years (in 2030)
Interest is 67k
This is using DBS mortgage calculator at 1.2% for 30 years loan.

Whether it will hit $1.6k psf is another story. For the location, at least for SPR and GW condos, the psf were quite stagnant since TOP in 2015, until PGW comes about. For Topiary, the big boost came about due to PGW as well, and we can see that the selling prices are priced just slightly lower than PGW generally.

To be able to hit $1.6k psf, you will have to consider if there are any potential catalyst. Honestly speaking, apart from guesswork, there are no longer any confirmed ones apart from MRT down the road nearer to Hundred Palms EC. My guess is that while there may likely be appreciation,

Now, if this is your only property, which is likely for most EC buyers, you are not really earning $300k after 10 years, as you will be needing to buy another property to stay in. There are two scenarios here
(1) You buy another one, then you are buying a more expensive condo to stay in, and paying someone else their $300k too.
(2) You downgrade to HDB, then you are still paying an additional $200k at least for someone else's profit.

So not much difference if you have gone into a 2nd HDB BTO, apart from using more cash upfront for EC but having the use of facilities, vs using much less cash upfront but earning maybe the same amount, or slightly less.

So as an investment property, I think it is pretty normal, probably won't earn a lot, as I don't see any potential near-term (10 years) catalyst.

But for own stay, I think it is damn good. The road can be quite noisy sometimes. I'm just not sure whether it affects when it is high-rise. Will go up the new HDB blocks beside to have a look these few days since it is ready.

 

[Entity]

read this recently, if anyone is interested in the nitty gritty numbers i think it is quite a good read

https://investmentmoats.com/money/dbs-future-property-investment-strategy/

 

[momoeagle]

read this recently, if anyone is interested in the nitty gritty numbers i think it is quite a good read

https://investmentmoats.com/money/dbs-future-property-investment-strategy/

One thing to note:

"DBS noted that while affordability is there, the size of the home has dropped by 20%."

If the trend continues, we are eating into the wealth of the next generation.

I'm expecting for China to implement even more hard handed measures to their property market in order to boost fertility, like what they did to the tuition and gaming industry.

But I don't really expect our current government to do anything much except increase taxes. They already prep us in the news for this.

The potential wealth tax that SG is looking to implement may include higher taxes on properties, where I am expecting a tiered approach that would not burden the lower income and lower value properties, but tax higher on those higher value properties as well as properties not for own stay.

And maybe a higher income tax on rental income. Just maybe.

 

[Entity]

One thing to note:

"DBS noted that while affordability is there, the size of the home has dropped by 20%."

If the trend continues, we are eating into the wealth of the next generation.

I guess this is kinda true, next gen will be the one suffering. we got real life example in HK.

our property taxes is in a way tiered already. don’t think they will implement gains tax, that will really be a big change that will affect property market in huge way

 

[Senayan]

For drivers, PG might be quite a nightmare when exiting TPE towards Changi, exit into Punggol Way in evening time.
The queue to exit is really long every day.

For Ola, only coming back from TPE towards CTE, exit Sengkang East Way side, may be heavier traffic. But the incidence is lesser. Only the queue to turn right around SKGH can be very long.

that should not be a concern for punggol and sengkang residents 2 years down the road. if you look at street directory. there is a new expressway exit under construction beside the sengkang riverside park towards sengkang west way completion in q2 2022. it will ease the traffic for both sengkang and punggol residents. good news for anchorvale and punggol road residents

 

[momoeagle]

that should not be a concern for punggol and sengkang residents 2 years down the road. if you look at street directory. there is a new expressway exit under construction beside the sengkang riverside park towards sengkang west way completion in q2 2022. it will ease the traffic for both sengkang and punggol residents. good news for anchorvale and punggol road residents

Sengkang Riverside Park is pretty far away from PG. Doubt it will ease for PG.
Unless you are talking about Seletar Link? That road is already opened I think, but I have only drove southwards from that road, and not northwards. Maybe should try. Looks interesting way to get to Punggol settlement to get some food.

 

[Senayan]

Sengkang Riverside Park is pretty far away from PG. Doubt it will ease for PG.
Unless you are talking about Seletar Link? That road is already opened I think, but I have only drove southwards from that road, and not northwards. Maybe should try. Looks interesting way to get to Punggol settlement to get some food.

Agree, it will benefit ola more than PG. and others condo nearby like rivertrees. Which will in return ease the traffic around turning to skgh side

 

[momoeagle]

Agree, it will benefit ola more than PG. and others condo nearby like rivertrees. Which will in return ease the traffic around turning to skgh side

Maybe. But good to have an entrance/exit there nevertheless.

 

[momoeagle]

I guess this is kinda true, next gen will be the one suffering. we got real life example in HK.

our property taxes is in a way tiered already. don’t think they will implement gains tax, that will really be a big change that will affect property market in huge way

Don't think they will do gains tax too.

I honestly didnt realise our property tax was tiered
See how poor I am
Just saw it.

They probably raise the tax level for it I guess. And maybe further increase BSD and ABSD, same old strategy.
And maybe if your spouse has a property already, you will still be liable for ABSD, to arrest escaping via decoupling.

 

[CaptainSGP]

One thing to note:

"DBS noted that while affordability is there, the size of the home has dropped by 20%."

If the trend continues, we are eating into the wealth of the next generation.

I'm expecting for China to implement even more hard handed measures to their property market in order to boost fertility, like what they did to the tuition and gaming industry.

But I don't really expect our current government to do anything much except increase taxes. They already prep us in the news for this.

The potential wealth tax that SG is looking to implement may include higher taxes on properties, where I am expecting a tiered approach that would not burden the lower income and lower value properties, but tax higher on those higher value properties as well as properties not for own stay.

And maybe a higher income tax on rental income. Just maybe.

If there’s a Wealth Tax, I won’t vote PAP.

 

[skpuppy]

Don't think they will do gains tax too.

I honestly didnt realise our property tax was tiered
See how poor I am
Just saw it.

They probably raise the tax level for it I guess. And maybe further increase BSD and ABSD, same old strategy.
And maybe if your spouse has a property already, you will still be liable for ABSD, to arrest escaping via decoupling.

Wont happen one la. If this happens, I think most would have given up property all together. They thought property very lucrative like our grandfather’s time ah.
You buy a 1 mil property with 60% leverage. How much can u rent out? $3000 a month? I put inside REIT shake leg also can earn between 4-7%. Owning ur own property need to deal with property agents, tenants etc…not easy also.
Singapore is not like China, HK or US. If property also cannot invest and make money, most would invest in overseas instruments already. In the end, who suffer? Singapore government right? Today I feel property investment is already not lucrative and quite dangerous. Any mishap you probably lose your property. Still want to charge this and that funny thing. Unless Singapore really think we got fintech, deep tech, AI, etc….See our top 50 u already can tell what kind of firms are SG listed companies

 

[Entity]

Don't think they will do gains tax too.

I honestly didnt realise our property tax was tiered
See how poor I am
Just saw it.

haha u kid who saying u poor.. stay in lower annual property value doesn’t equal poor to me, but of cos this is up to ones perception