Some random facts about 三国

[ponpokku]

It was not really harassment warfare, there are so many times 诸葛亮need to retreat coz the food not enough, their supply line is too long.

And most of the times, 司马懿just ignore him totally and refuse to fight until his supply line got problem then retreat. You called that got advantage?

Zhu ge liang is wasting his own country resources by all the 北伐。

and that is the restriction they faced. but sima yi having a much bigger army stationed there, used up more food and resources just keeping an eye on shu.

this is a battle of attrition. shu ish like japan attacking pearl harbour. u think they can sue peace immediately after they destroy pearl harbour? u think shu can immediately sue peace after their first northern campaign? win or lose they will have to carry on becos wei ish not gonna let them off anyway.

that is oso why sima yi had to choose the least risky route, ie not to engage shu. just like americans not retaliating from 1941-43 but played defensive. becos supplies not steady. he was already spending more resources than ZGL cos he gotta maintain a bigger army, if he engaged shu wilfully and accidentally lost, the depletion on his side is even bigger.

and ZGL actions also posed some form of deterrance to wei, that they are always ready for war.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

that is relative. they can attack out easier than wei to attack in. sichuan ish highland and chengdu ish basin among the highland. wei has no idea when shu will attack them, but shu has a good idea when wei ish attacking.

nope, no dynasty in chinese history succeeded conquest from sichuan, but that is not the point. the point is shu was stuch there at that very moment and the best thing they can do is keep on harassing wei becos the toll on wei ish bigger than theirs, esp after the first northern campaign failed.

it is not a good strategy, but it is the best strategy they can afford.

This is not called harassing.
Simayi already cleared up some places since the Shu first attack. There isn't any surprise thereafter.

This is called 消耗战not 游击战，a small country like Shu should avoid fighting this kind of battle at all.
And it cost more damage to its own economy compared to 魏economy. 魏just sit there and don fight. Furthermore, 魏supply line is shorter than 蜀, which means each time 蜀seek fight, they are at the losing end.

And furthermore, 蜀at that time, din emphasize finding talent, there are so few talent in 蜀. After those old uncles died, they are essentially suffering from a lack of talented generals and administrators in the country.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

and that is the restriction they faced. but sima yi having a much bigger army stationed there, used up more food and resources just keeping an eye on shu.

this is a battle of attrition. shu ish like japan attacking pearl harbour. u think they can sue peace immediately after they destroy pearl harbour? u think shu can immediately sue peace after their first northern campaign? win or lose they will have to carry on becos wei ish not gonna let them off anyway.

that is oso why sima yi had to choose the least risky route, ie not to engage shu. just like americans not retaliating from 1941-43 but played defensive. becos supplies not steady. he was already spending more resources than ZGL cos he gotta maintain a bigger army, if he engaged shu wilfully and accidentally lost, the depletion on his side is even bigger.

and ZGL actions also posed some form of deterrance to wei, that they are always ready for war.

Japan Bomb pearl harbour in year 1941, had upper hand for almost half a year, after that keep losing against usa armies.
Before Hiroshima was bombed, usa almost reached Japan mainland already.

If this is the analogy that you are trying draw, you are trying to imply that 蜀is seeking death by provoking 魏.

 

[ponpokku]

Since when they attack jingzhou from 汉中？

You know where is 虎牢关right?

jingzhou was originally guarded by guanyu and was the yangtze exit for shu. in 217 ad liubei attacked and captured hanzhong, but lost jingzhou when guanyu was killed.

this caused shu to lost one of its 2 exits to attack wei, and left only land route for northern campaign.

simi hulao guan? hulao guan was in he'nan province, near luoyang. thats like a 1000 miles away.

 

[ponpokku]

Japan Bomb pearl harbour in year 1941, had upper hand for almost half a year, after that keep losing against usa armies.
Before Hiroshima was bombed, usa almost reached Japan mainland already.

If this is the analogy that you are trying draw, you are trying to imply that 蜀is seeking death by provoking 魏.

nope, the difference btw japan and us is bigger than shu and wei.

us has only one main enemy that is japan, germany was NOT touching us. us was supporting europe but not yet in direct conflict with germany.

wei has shu and wu to deal with, and wu was the bigger threat than shu, so shu survived much longer compare to japan vs us.

the similarity here ends at the provocation. once u provoke a more powerful opponent and somehow scored some initial success, u can only press on hoping that ur opponent doesnt recovery his footings that fast.

thats the best case scenario for shu.

 

[ponpokku]

This is not called harassing.
Simayi already cleared up some places since the Shu first attack. There isn't any surprise thereafter.

This is called 消耗战not 游击战，a small country like Shu should avoid fighting this kind of battle at all.
And it cost more damage to its own economy compared to 魏economy. 魏just sit there and don fight. Furthermore, 魏supply line is shorter than 蜀, which means each time 蜀seek fight, they are at the losing end.

And furthermore, 蜀at that time, din emphasize finding talent, there are so few talent in 蜀. After those old uncles died, they are essentially suffering from a lack of talented generals and administrators in the country.

if they dont do it, they die even faster. that is just to extend their ultimate demise.

wei already set up supply lines at their door step, u expect shu sit inside sichuan do nothing about it?

if they harass, at least the enemy need to recover from loss. if they somehow succeeded in capturing some territories, that is even bigger reward. to shu, they are already at the losing end, nothing to lose.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

jingzhou was originally guarded by guanyu and was the yangtze exit for shu. in 217 ad liubei attacked and captured hanzhong, but lost jingzhou when guanyu was killed.

this caused shu to lost one of its 2 exits to attack wei, and left only land route for northern campaign.

simi hulao guan? hulao guan was in he'nan province, near luoyang. thats like a 1000 miles away.

Ern.... I think you really need to see the route they took to attack north. They are not using the waterway.

If wanna come out from 四川，without using waterway, they need to come out from 汉中。And there is this 虎牢关that they need to conquer before they can go into 中原via that route. Before they even reach 长安，they need to face魏at 平原，this is where they lose their soldier competitive advantage.

If I din remember wrongly, zhugeliang used the land route every time. So what you said about what 千里江陵blah blah quite surprised me. Unless you are saying they take route from 吴.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

if they dont do it, they die even faster. that is just to extend their ultimate demise.

wei already set up supply lines at their door step, u expect shu sit inside sichuan do nothing about it?

if they harass, at least the enemy need to recover from loss. if they somehow succeeded in capturing some territories, that is even bigger reward. to shu, they are already at the losing end, nothing to lose.

As what we have agreed, 蜀地艰难，it is so much easier to defend. Now you are contradicting yourself.

 

[crayon_shinchan]

I only knw 曹西平，皮馬寮。嗶嗶嗶!

Sent from public phone using GAGT

 

[OngHuatHuat]

nope, the difference btw japan and us is bigger than shu and wei.

us has only one main enemy that is japan, germany was NOT touching us. us was supporting europe but not yet in direct conflict with germany.

wei has shu and wu to deal with, and wu was the bigger threat than shu, so shu survived much longer compare to japan vs us.

the similarity here ends at the provocation. once u provoke a more powerful opponent and somehow scored some initial success, u can only press on hoping that ur opponent doesnt recovery his footings that fast.

thats the best case scenario for shu.

That is the reason why 蜀is much better off just defending in 蜀地，but not keep sacrificing people happiness and resources to go out and seek fight.

四川is darn hard to conquer one, last time Japan so much advantage against China also get hold up by 蒋介石near that area.

 

[酒干倘卖无.]

Which one is true sia? All along the 三国 i know turn out to be another kind 无间道 series? The good is actually evil, the bad is actually the main protagonist? Chibi turn out to favor CC and ZGL is actually the smart ass who only keep play safe. I have been mislead by the media through 3 decades.

 

[blacklotus]

not simpur thread.

 

[crayon_shinchan]

not simpur thread.

三國演藝are fake one.but 德川家康like this book so much end up he won the country.

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[yummie]

Japan Bomb pearl harbour in year 1941, had upper hand for almost half a year, after that keep losing against usa armies.
Before Hiroshima was bombed, usa almost reached Japan mainland already.

If this is the analogy that you are trying draw, you are trying to imply that 蜀is seeking death by provoking 魏.

Becos japan didnt bomb pearl harbour entirely. Pearl harbour was like just scratch on the surface, if u know wat i mean. N usa was shocked n wasnt ready to fight n was not in total war economy yet. Thus japan had the upper hand

Sent from christmas island using GAGT

 

[OngHuatHuat]

Becos japan didnt bomb pearl harbour entirely. Pearl harbour was like just scratch on the surface, if u know wat i mean. N usa was shocked n wasnt ready to fight n was not in total war economy yet. Thus japan had the upper hand

Sent from christmas island using GAGT

Yes, the result was the same as first 北伐，if zhu ge liang manage to take 长安，everything will be different.

I think coz usa industries need a few months to produce ships needed for the battle. Churchill was so happy when he heard Usa was dragged into World War 2 coz he knew the war was going to end soon after USA participation.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

Which one is true sia? All along the 三国 i know turn out to be another kind 无间道 series? The good is actually evil, the bad is actually the main protagonist? Chibi turn out to favor CC and ZGL is actually the smart ass who only keep play safe. I have been mislead by the media through 3 decades.

That is coz 三国演义favoring 刘备.

 

[ponpokku]

As what we have agreed, 蜀地艰难，it is so much easier to defend. Now you are contradicting yourself.

easy to defend and difficult for outsiders to attack in.

not really difficult for insiders to get out. lol.

 

[ponpokku]

That is the reason why 蜀is much better off just defending in 蜀地，but not keep sacrificing people happiness and resources to go out and seek fight.

四川is darn hard to conquer one, last time Japan so much advantage against China also get hold up by 蒋介石near that area.

and the historical truth ish, shu was destroyed within 3mths when wei muscled up enuff troops. shu ish difficultto attack but not impossible to attack. if u let wei amassed enuff manpower then shu ish finished, just like i mentioned in previous post.

the weak point of shu was not the northern campaign during ZGL time, but during jiangwei's time from AD 240s onwards, becos he cant go back to the capital fearing political sabotage, he was stuck at the borders and had to frantically attempt to expand his foothold.

 

[ponpokku]

Which one is true sia? All along the 三国 i know turn out to be another kind 无间道 series? The good is actually evil, the bad is actually the main protagonist? Chibi turn out to favor CC and ZGL is actually the smart ass who only keep play safe. I have been mislead by the media through 3 decades.

the novel itself ish highly inclined towards liubei and critical of caocao.

historically, each has their weakness and strengths.

 

[FrogGreen]

Liu Bei was blinded by hatred and fail to see the bigger picture, if only shu is lead by ZGL, there won't be so many sacrifices.

When liu bei invade Wu, zhuge liang was already condemned in his career. That is why he did not tag along with the Wu expedition.