Some random facts about 三国

[Ethan_]

After caocao was defeated, then 刘备Went into 四川，then he kind of snatch 益州from 刘璋even 刘璋trusted him. A lot of people think 刘备good guy? He actually used some tricks to get 益州.

For me, I more admire 曹操type, really hard core fighting to gain his foothold in 中原, not liu bei type sneaky sneaky snatched other people base.

Don't know why many grew up with a better impression of liu and zhu. But think in cn, from the many literary works mentioned, many seems to perceive cao as more respectable. Liu is somewhat more sneaky or weasel deep inside (don't know how to describe), always make use of people, lack the hero aura from modern perception. Can't help feel somewhat sorry for the other sworn brothers, like always tio make use of by Liu. Zhu is sort of a failure, for all the talent, pale somewhat career wise (maybe follow the wrong leader ).

 

[OngHuatHuat]

Wrong leh Liu bei they all ish FT going in. At first the country was relax but country take over by Liu bei become strict.

Towards the end of ZGL era, tax was high as fewer Labour supporting the officers and army .

This ish why Sima decided to annex them first. When he succeeded. the first thing that the sima did was to ask all FT to go back to the central plain. Leaving the sinkies... Sorry I meant the Shu people to govern the counties

Sent from Kanto using GAGT

The original 益州帮, 刘璋father 刘焉also came from northern part of China, ie they are also immigrant as well.

Those who stay there for very long time are those少数民族。 definitely not 汉族。

 

[Soulhacker]

Wrong leh Liu bei they all ish FT going in. At first the country was relax but country take over by Liu bei become strict.

Towards the end of ZGL era, tax was high as fewer Labour supporting the officers and army .

This ish why Sima decided to annex them first. When he succeeded. the first thing that the sima did was to ask all FT to go back to the central plain. Leaving the sinkies... Sorry I meant the Shu people to govern the counties

Suggest you go read about the more serious but boring books on sexpert finding in Sanguo like the economy, the law, the livelihood of peasants etc.

Then you will know that the so-called relaxed rules by previous incumbent of Shu ish all bull$hit. Like it ish also very relax in big loan sharks law that allow lich\elite to loan $$$ to peasant kia with high interest, then when peasant kia cannot pay, they will take away the land of the peasant kia. If still cannot pay, take take away peasant kia daughter and son to work as maid and $laves, if still cannot pay, the peasant kia themselves become $lave. Then ish generation of $lavery for the family after that.

Another way of those shu elite forcing peasants into $lavery ish entice them to sign up lease for land. the elite will lease them land but every harvest must give elite some portion as payment if can't pay the debt will add up with high interests. If harvest good still okay peasants can tahan and pay, but if poor harvest, many will tio pwn if they can't pay the elite enough. Then end up sell chewren into $lavery and eventually themselves.

And think you confuse ZGL era with Jiang Wei\Liu Chang era.

When ZGL up lorry, Shu ish still at it's prime. People nowadays blindly kpkb about his failed campaign against the North but in actual fact ZGL had been so over careful (that why also seldom yield result in war and war need risk) that his failed campaigns didn't wear out the country at all.

It was after Jiang Wei take over and try a few risky campaign that resulted in huge lost that eventually worn out Shu treasury and manpower. And it didn't help that Liu Chang ish not a capable nor charismatic ruler and after ZGL dead he also like to listen to Gold 90.5FM only..

 

[jinmuddy]

If he win and clear everyone up, he will be pressured to return the actual power to the Han Emperor.

After this battle he literally drag his feet at all war front

Sent from Kanto using GAGT

He obviously rmbred wad happened to 韩信 once there is no one else left to fight anymore.

 

[lightningflash]

to be honest, 三国第一人 ish not 曹操， 孙权，诸葛亮, but the infamous 刘备，not because of his sworn brothers, but he managed to

1. Convinced 曹操 with his flawless acting skill that he wasn't a threat. 就算是曹操也被摆了一道。
2. Convinced 诸葛亮 with his flawless acting skill that he was a great lord an leader. 就算智力100也被坑。
3. Convinced 孙尚香 to help him escaped。就算是亲哥哥也反了。

And he most ultimate achievement -

4. Convinced the blardy horse 的卢 with his flawless acting skill to save him from the water. 就算是听不懂人话的畜生也被坑！

this is funny

 

[OngHuatHuat]

Suggest you go read about the more serious but boring books on sexpert finding in Sanguo like the economy, the law, the livelihood of peasants etc.

Then you will know that the so-called relaxed rules by previous incumbent of Shu ish all bull$hit. Like it ish also very relax in big loan sharks law that allow lich\elite to loan $$$ to peasant kia with high interest, then when peasant kia cannot pay, they will take away the land of the peasant kia. If still cannot pay, take take away peasant kia daughter and son to work as maid and $laves, if still cannot pay, the peasant kia themselves become $lave. Then ish generation of $lavery for the family after that.

Another way of those shu elite forcing peasants into $lavery ish entice them to sign up lease for land. the elite will lease them land but every harvest must give elite some portion as payment if can't pay the debt will add up with high interests. If harvest good still okay peasants can tahan and pay, but if poor harvest, many will tio pwn if they can't pay the elite enough. Then end up sell chewren into $lavery and eventually themselves.

And think you confuse ZGL era with Jiang Wei\Liu Chang era.

When ZGL up lorry, Shu ish still at it's prime. People nowadays blindly kpkb about his failed campaign against the North but in actual fact ZGL had been so over careful (that why also seldom yield result in war and war need risk) that his failed campaigns didn't wear out the country at all.

It was after Jiang Wei take over and try a few risky campaign that resulted in huge lost that eventually worn out Shu treasury and manpower. And it didn't help that Liu Chang ish not a capable nor charismatic ruler and after ZGL dead he also like to listen to Gold 90.5FM only..

For your information:

可见国力之弱。诸葛亮也承认，他是在“益州疲弊”的情况下率师北伐的。而当时魏国，有人口440万，军队约60万，力量对比差距明显。
蜀国地方，易守难攻，若能真正联合吴国，协调一致地对付强魏，则蜀国偏安西南还是有可能的。而四川地区优越的经济环境也可以为蜀国稳固防守提供条件 。如果沃野千里的天府之国的资源能够真正被开发，蜀国的经济实力必将大增，逐鹿中原的机会自然大了不少。
过早的北伐让蜀国耗尽了财力，影响了蜀国的经济发展，使其相对弱小的军事经济实力更加弱小。由于蜀汉经济基础薄弱，经不起连年战争，浩大的军事 开支，加上币材紧缺，使蜀国不得不实行通货膨胀政策，所铸行的多是大面值钱币。没有相应的社会物质基础作为后盾而铸行大面值减重钱币，必然会引起物价 飞涨。同时蜀汉国民对长期的战争也极为厌恶，千方百计逃避兵役。有资料表明，由于诸葛亮连年出兵北伐，兵员 不足，遂调各郡兵补充北伐部队，然而各郡大约是以各种借口为由而拒不发兵，形成了“多不相救”的局面。诸葛亮死后，军队中大量的士兵和职业兵户更是纷纷逃亡，做为地方长官的吕乂 ，数年中仅在一个蜀郡就查出了万余名逃避兵役者。至蜀汉后期姜维北伐期间，蜀汉已经出现了“经其野民皆菜色”的景象，可见连年北伐对蜀汉经济造成的伤害之大。

 

[worcer]

to be honest, 三国第一人 ish not 曹操， 孙权，诸葛亮, but the infamous 刘备，not because of his sworn brothers, but he managed to

1. Convinced 曹操 with his flawless acting skill that he wasn't a threat. 就算是曹操也被摆了一道。
2. Convinced 诸葛亮 with his flawless acting skill that he was a great lord an leader. 就算智力100也被坑。
3. Convinced 孙尚香 to help him escaped。就算是亲哥哥也反了。

And he most ultimate achievement -

4. Convinced the blardy horse 的卢 with his flawless acting skill to save him from the water. 就算是听不懂人话的畜生也被坑！

Because if I am not wrong, liu bei should be born a tiger. Always try to go infront and let others die.

Zhuge liang is a rooster. Keep Fugin many secrets... But compatible with liu bei ox.

One another hand... Guan yu is rat.selfish fellow...

Zhang fei is horse... Do things half way.Cannot keep his personal things to himself.

Zhou yu and cao pi both rabbit... Talk cock act sahki sibei lia hai.

And lastly, of course zhao yun is rooster. That's y in three Kingdom stories nvr said anything much about him... Likes keeping secret.

 

[tissuepaper]

sleepyhealer vs soulhacker
i think still missing one more edmwer to complete the trio of edmwer sexpert in 3 kingdom

 

[CjieTehAwesome]

My chinese teacher also say 曹操 very strong and had a very good pair of legs. He can run a 1000 li in a single day.



















because 说曹操曹操就到.

Sometimes the lamest jokes are the ***** funniest. good job

to be honest, 三国第一人 ish not 曹操， 孙权，诸葛亮, but the infamous 刘备，not because of his sworn brothers, but he managed to

1. Convinced 曹操 with his flawless acting skill that he wasn't a threat. 就算是曹操也被摆了一道。
2. Convinced 诸葛亮 with his flawless acting skill that he was a great lord an leader. 就算智力100也被坑。
3. Convinced 孙尚香 to help him escaped。就算是亲哥哥也反了。

And he most ultimate achievement -

4. Convinced the blardy horse 的卢 with his flawless acting skill to save him from the water. 就算是听不懂人话的畜生也被坑！

last 2 points best

Sent from Academy City using GAGT

 

[ponpokku]

For your information:

可见国力之弱。诸葛亮也承认，他是在“益州疲弊”的情况下率师北伐的。而当时魏国，有人口440万，军队约60万，力量对比差距明显。
蜀国地方，易守难攻，若能真正联合吴国，协调一致地对付强魏，则蜀国偏安西南还是有可能的。而四川地区优越的经济环境也可以为蜀国稳固防守提供条件 。如果沃野千里的天府之国的资源能够真正被开发，蜀国的经济实力必将大增，逐鹿中原的机会自然大了不少。
过早的北伐让蜀国耗尽了财力，影响了蜀国的经济发展，使其相对弱小的军事经济实力更加弱小。由于蜀汉经济基础薄弱，经不起连年战争，浩大的军事 开支，加上币材紧缺，使蜀国不得不实行通货膨胀政策，所铸行的多是大面值钱币。没有相应的社会物质基础作为后盾而铸行大面值减重钱币，必然会引起物价 飞涨。同时蜀汉国民对长期的战争也极为厌恶，千方百计逃避兵役。有资料表明，由于诸葛亮连年出兵北伐，兵员 不足，遂调各郡兵补充北伐部队，然而各郡大约是以各种借口为由而拒不发兵，形成了“多不相救”的局面。诸葛亮死后，军队中大量的士兵和职业兵户更是纷纷逃亡，做为地方长官的吕乂 ，数年中仅在一个蜀郡就查出了万余名逃避兵役者。至蜀汉后期姜维北伐期间，蜀汉已经出现了“经其野民皆菜色”的景象，可见连年北伐对蜀汉经济造成的伤害之大。

wrong info lol. that tiong passage was just paper general remark.

yes shu ish stuck at a natural fortress that ish easy to defend and difficult to be conquered. but wei has much bigger territories and resources. if shu didnt start their northern campaign early and gain a foothold beyond the defensive bottleneck, wei will grow in an exponential function and outmatch shu in no time. they will just camp outside the bottleneck and wait for shu to die, or attack with superior forces when the time ish right. the 2nd option happened eventually.

closed-door sitting duck is the worst move for shu. becos as it drags on, the situation becomes more advantageous to wei. all ur previous posts already said that wei has more stability and resources, shu has instability and low resources. dunno how u can come to the conclusion that dragging long term will be good for shu instead of wei.

the problem with shu is the first northern campaign that failed. that was the biggest chance they had but they lost it. at that time hanzhong was defended by a weak wei general, the 3 wei counties adjacent to shu joined the rebellion against wei, things were looking good. but too bad ma su lost and shu had to retreat. subsequent northern campaigns were just to keep wei busy so that they dun outgrow shu that fast, and that the gap dun widen that fast.

 

[ponpokku]

Suggest you go read about the more serious but boring books on sexpert finding in Sanguo like the economy, the law, the livelihood of peasants etc.

Then you will know that the so-called relaxed rules by previous incumbent of Shu ish all bull$hit. Like it ish also very relax in big loan sharks law that allow lich\elite to loan $$$ to peasant kia with high interest, then when peasant kia cannot pay, they will take away the land of the peasant kia. If still cannot pay, take take away peasant kia daughter and son to work as maid and $laves, if still cannot pay, the peasant kia themselves become $lave. Then ish generation of $lavery for the family after that.

Another way of those shu elite forcing peasants into $lavery ish entice them to sign up lease for land. the elite will lease them land but every harvest must give elite some portion as payment if can't pay the debt will add up with high interests. If harvest good still okay peasants can tahan and pay, but if poor harvest, many will tio pwn if they can't pay the elite enough. Then end up sell chewren into $lavery and eventually themselves.

And think you confuse ZGL era with Jiang Wei\Liu Chang era.

When ZGL up lorry, Shu ish still at it's prime. People nowadays blindly kpkb about his failed campaign against the North but in actual fact ZGL had been so over careful (that why also seldom yield result in war and war need risk) that his failed campaigns didn't wear out the country at all.

It was after Jiang Wei take over and try a few risky campaign that resulted in huge lost that eventually worn out Shu treasury and manpower. And it didn't help that Liu Chang ish not a capable nor charismatic ruler and after ZGL dead he also like to listen to Gold 90.5FM only..

shu was ok during ZGL era. not exceptional but not bad. during jiangwei's time, he tio sidelined by court politics (ah dou trust eunuchs/jester like huanghao but not the proper officials, much like pinky and lim siah suay), jiangwei had to barricade himself at the frontier and kept on trying to break wei's encirclement, as he's not good with court politics.

ish really lanlan suck thumb situation for jiangwei.

 

[ponpokku]

Don't know why many grew up with a better impression of liu and zhu. But think in cn, from the many literary works mentioned, many seems to perceive cao as more respectable. Liu is somewhat more sneaky or weasel deep inside (don't know how to describe), always make use of people, lack the hero aura from modern perception. Can't help feel somewhat sorry for the other sworn brothers, like always tio make use of by Liu. Zhu is sort of a failure, for all the talent, pale somewhat career wise (maybe follow the wrong leader ).

liu and zhuge only had better image after ming dynasty becos of opera/novel portrayals. all the while caocao was the man.

the power of soap operas.

 

[tissuepaper]

all 3 expert in 3 kingdom is here

 

[Kiwi8]

Is this thread still about San Guo, or is it referring to some current political situation?

 

[yummie]

but zhuge liang joined liu bei was becos of lesser talents in liu bei's organisation and thus can shine, great man can shine in SME but not in govt sector aka Cao Cao's org as too many ppl liao.

but zhuge liang, becos of his eagerness to shine, became jealous of other talented ppl, thus he kept whacking wei yan and when wei yan recco to attack Wei using a shorter but more dangerous and direct route, ZGL didn't want as he did not want wei yan to be remembered as THE guy who defeated Wei, but himself, ZGL, as THE man who defeated Wei

 

[OngHuatHuat]

wrong info lol. that tiong passage was just paper general remark.

yes shu ish stuck at a natural fortress that ish easy to defend and difficult to be conquered. but wei has much bigger territories and resources. if shu didnt start their northern campaign early and gain a foothold beyond the defensive bottleneck, wei will grow in an exponential function and outmatch shu in no time. they will just camp outside the bottleneck and wait for shu to die, or attack with superior forces when the time ish right. the 2nd option happened eventually.

closed-door sitting duck is the worst move for shu. becos as it drags on, the situation becomes more advantageous to wei. all ur previous posts already said that wei has more stability and resources, shu has instability and low resources. dunno how u can come to the conclusion that dragging long term will be good for shu instead of wei.

the problem with shu is the first northern campaign that failed. that was the biggest chance they had but they lost it. at that time hanzhong was defended by a weak wei general, the 3 wei counties adjacent to shu joined the rebellion against wei, things were looking good. but too bad ma su lost and shu had to retreat. subsequent northern campaigns were just to keep wei busy so that they dun outgrow shu that fast, and that the gap dun widen that fast.

I lazy to type, that's why I copied and pasted.

Wei is a much bigger country than Shu, even if they keep Shu busy, who is the one that get weaker faster?
Shu is much easier to defend than going out.

Even if they manage to win first 北伐 they cannot fight the reinforcement sent by Wei。
no matter got mashu or not, he will still lose. Shu only got one main troop, which is 北伐军。
Not to mention Wei general 司马懿is super good in defence.
Throughout his several 北伐，his loss >> Wei loss.

Political wise, it is his 北伐，that made 魏gave more power to 司马家族. Cao family went down, but sima family rised up fast and eventually overtook the government. His invasion indirectly led to the uprise of sima family which eventually taken Shu.

 

[ponpokku]

I lazy to type, that's why I copied and pasted.

Wei is a much bigger country than Shu, even if they keep Shu busy, who is the one that get weaker faster?
Shu is much easier to defend than going out.

Even if they manage to win first 北伐 they cannot fight the reinforcement sent by Wei。
no matter got mashu or not, he will still lose. Shu only got one main troop, which is 北伐军。
Not to mention Wei general 司马懿is super good in defence.
Throughout his several 北伐，his loss >> Wei loss.

Political wise, it is his 北伐，that made 魏gave more power to 司马家族. Cao family went down, but sima family rised up fast and eventually overtook the government. His invasion indirectly led to the uprise of sima family which eventually taken Shu.

it was shu keeping wei busy, not the other way round.

shu was easy to defend and easy to go out, but not easy to get in. read ur china geography lol. sichuan/guizhou area ish highland sloping down towards jingzhou.
how come libai poem 千里江陵一日还? it is always easier to attack from high grounds. wei on the other hand had difficulty breaking shu becos it is literally uphill battle.

that is the reason that makes shu EASY TO DEFEND. but shu need a buffer zone beyond the bottleneck so that they wont be choked to death by wei. hanzhong to jingzhou area is another choke point with lots of land for food, so shu wanted to take that too, and joined forces with wu.

wei at hanzhong and part of jingzhou literally blocked the communication btw shu and wu, cos they controlled part of the yangtze river.

dun just talk from thin air. look at the map.

for harassment warfare, the attacking side always have more advantage than defensive, esp attacking from highground to lowlands. and thats the best option shu has against wei after the 1st northern campaign failed unexpectedly.

 

[t0rnado]

Liu bei only good cause he got wo long and feng chu plus wu hu jiang

Sent from O: using GAGT

wu hu jiang is only fiction from the novel, they are as real as The Avengers.

In real life they have General of the Front/Rear/Right/Left, who are Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Huang Zhong & Ma Teng.
Only 4 of them, not 5. And Zhao Yun was never part of this elite group.

 

[TheITGuy]

The guy I pity most in 庞统, because 刘备 ish so good that he managed to convince 的卢 to suicide instead of helping 庞统 to escape. 庞统 ish just the collateral damage. From here, i can conclude that 刘备 ish actually the 三国第一 ***.

 

[TheITGuy]

wu hu jiang is only fiction from the novel, they are as real as The Avengers.

In real life they have General of the Front/Rear/Right/Left, who are Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Huang Zhong & Ma Teng.
Only 4 of them, not 5. And Zhao Yun was never part of this elite group.

ma chao is it? Actually in real history zhao yun ish only the personal guard of Liu Bei, not a war general like guan yu zhang fei they all.