Will minimum wage laws work here?

[Kyoji83]

I do not see why company will lose millions when they shift their operation to other country since operation cost is lower & profit still remain which overall profit margin is higher?

so u mean u can pull out ur business anytime? They will make more losses if they pull out. And i mean millions even for a SME.

So u want to earn less but still make a lot of money or lose millions at a time?

Remember, bosses gave themselves pay raise every single year. Maybe they should stop for one year.

 

[Kyoji83]

Then you're going to have to explain why a law meant to protect sinkies included other groups as well?

Since when there is a law to protect Singaporean? Base on quota system, 1 PR can let 3 work permits & S-Pass holder to work. E-Pass holder is not include inside quota system. So why should I give a Singaporean a job where there is no law to protect Singaporean?

At and pinoy should open their eyes big big by the time they're thinking of coming here.
Why the food price is going to increase is to help the poorer group. Not allow business owners to earn more. The middle class cannot think its the govt's responsibility alone . Want to jiak people dont want to pay.
When the poorest segment gets paid they'll beable to cycle the money up since most are living hand to mouth in an expensive country not so for the middle class who wants to enjoy life and buy nice stuff to use together on their next trip to spend in europe japan or even shopping in jb.

Society as a whole must move forward. Dont blame the pap for controlling you if you have this kind of mentality

pinoy have the same problem as Singapore which is over supply for manpower in the market.

However by coming here, they have higher salary compare to their home country but salary will be lower then Singaporean. So how low can you accept for the job when you have family to support in Singapore?

If pinoy fail in their home country & Singapore, they can still go Spain & directly become a citizen. What can a Singaporean do?

This is the reason why I blame PAP for over supply for manpower (foreigners) to the market when the demand is not there that cause problem like lower wages & unemployment for Singaporeans.

 

[Some-one]

Quote me one study. Just ONE. That describes what you and spitfirxe have been trying to describe.

Fine. Let me just give you this study by the CATO Institute

I do not want to go into the details on this paper. You can read it yourself. I would only write the relevant part.

It is basically very simple. You cannot discount the possibility of firms reducing their wages to the minimum.

http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA701.pdf

"In the case of a nationwide minimum wage,
large numbers of firms will be affected, albeit
by different amounts depending on the industry, region of the country, and other factors. In
addition to the mandated cost increase possibly causing employment reductions, a portion of the higher wage costs may be passed
forward to consumers or backward to other
workers or suppliers of business inputs. In
some circumstances, firms may reduce work
hours, such as with fixed employment costs
and worker heterogeneity, but maintain headcount. The employment and hours worked
may also be affected by wage-related changes
in employee productivity. "

 

[omgwtflol]

Minimum wage law will only apply if you are the bottom 10-20% wage earners of society. Most of such beneficiaries would be students, and part timers. It has a little effect on those professionals.

So it doesnt matter really.

 

[Kyoji83]

Company will not hesitate to shift their operation to another country regardless how minimum wage bring up the operation cost or how cheap the wages are to bring up the profit margins.

The reason why minimum wage is a NONO because everyone is underpaid.

When there is a large increase in labor cost & company cannot take it, they just shift their operation or close down.

Because everyone is underpaid, it become a norm & market trend which there is no needs to increase everyone salary because your salary is within market trend.

Why I say everyone is underpaid is because of inflation. In the past, ITE salary is 1K with chicken rice rate of $2. Now ITE salary still 1K but chicken rice rate is $3.50. So where is addition $1.50 from chicken rice go to? So instead of increasing our salary, it go to inflation which cause us to be underpaid in today market.

ya but those pap fuggers use media scam the people. say minimum wage would make companies go away then there would be no job.. knn blatant liars.

really charles cheespies greedy people.

 

[DorumonSG]

Because minimum wage affects educated people huh? It's good for uneducated but prolly wun affect the educated.

 

[oldbreadstinks]

I do not see why company will lose millions when they shift their operation to other country since operation cost is lower & profit still remain which overall profit margin is higher?

We're talking about a business here . That has operating costs.. even starting up has operation costs.

I'm running a small business now and even though i know the unit beside me is cheaper i cant just uproot and move. I'll need.to pay to set up my stuff again .renovations and stuff.
Not to mention people who can't .find me despite moving to a nearby location. I've seen that happen . Often.
Despite rental being lower. I'm unlikely to reap the benefits of moving in a few years in saving money.

Another .example is those businesses which requires complex machines . Clean rooms
one company . A giant mnc in sg set up another building to house everyone for prestige and maybe save cost as well instead of being all over the place. But just before they move they realised they need to pay the movers hundreds of thousands to move the machines ..... the same costs as buying new.
And it ended up they decided.to.stay for the remainder of the lease


And for sensitive stuff. Thailand's flood two years ago showed how important it is when the country is mismanaged for years.
One of my suppliers , another mnc who supplies the entire region had nothing to send and it really affected their business when the flood happened in thailand.

 

[oldbreadstinks]

If nothing is going to change, I am expecting to see a riots/strikes on the streets at least in 20 years time.

Probably .10 if we hit 6.9


But then again it'll .likely be.prcs.rioting

 

[kel666]

Company will not hesitate to shift their operation to another country regardless how minimum wage bring up the operation cost or how cheap the wages are to bring up the profit margins.

The reason why minimum wage is a NONO because everyone is underpaid.

When there is a large increase in labor cost & company cannot take it, they just shift their operation or close down.

Because everyone is underpaid, it become a norm & market trend which there is no needs to increase everyone salary because your salary is within market trend.

Why I say everyone is underpaid is because of inflation. In the past, ITE salary is 1K with chicken rice rate of $2. Now ITE salary still 1K but chicken rice rate is $3.50. So where is addition $1.50 from chicken rice go to? So instead of increasing our salary, it go to inflation which cause us to be underpaid in today market.

min wage will not be for PMETs rah. Set the min wage higher than the low skilled pay overall how ish it underpaid?

And u think once the min wage is set, the amount will be the same forever?

Wonder why some ppl cannot look deep huan...

 

[BioProEng]

My two cents.

If such a law is passed, I do not forsee that most companies will reduce the prior salary to the mininum wage. Some appointment holders are paid higher because they take on more responsibility.

If people am going to be paid a minimun wage and with the same normal of stress, whats stopping them from downgrading to those low skilled stress free jobs? Imagine a toilet cleaner being paid ie, 3k a month compared to a everyday stressful client facing role at also the same pay. Which will you prefer?

With a mininum wage law, more singaporeans might be more willing to take on jobs which they previously do not want. As a result, Singapore is able to rely less on foreign talents as well.

I can only see a win win situation.

Actually, I dare say, many of these 'SG do not want' jobs, are because of the freaking low pay, not because they do not want to do.

 

[oldbreadstinks]

Since when there is a law to protect Singaporean? Base on quota system, 1 PR can let 3 work permits & S-Pass holder to work. E-Pass holder is not include inside quota system. So why should I give a Singaporean a job where there is no law to protect Singaporean?



pinoy have the same problem as Singapore which is over supply for manpower in the market.

However by coming here, they have higher salary compare to their home country but salary will be lower then Singaporean. So how low can you accept for the job when you have family to support in Singapore?

If pinoy fail in their home country & Singapore, they can still go Spain & directly become a citizen. What can a Singaporean do?

This is the reason why I blame PAP for over supply for manpower (foreigners) to the market when the demand is not there that cause problem like lower wages & unemployment for Singaporeans.

Which is why i say again, min wage must be accompanied by other policies .
Without a core group propellering the nation forward we'll soon sink when you let mercenaries run the nation.
Mercenaries by nature are out to draw the biggest profit regardless of results.

 

[oldbreadstinks]

Fine. Let me just give you this study by the CATO Institute

I do not want to go into the details on this paper. You can read it yourself. I would only write the relevant part.

It is basically very simple. You cannot discount the possibility of firms reducing their wages to the minimum.
K
http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA701.pdf

"In the case of a nationwide minimum wage,
large numbers of firms will be affected, albeit
by different amounts depending on the industry, region of the country, and other factors. In
addition to the mandated cost increase possibly causing employment reductions, a portion of the higher wage costs may be passed
forward to consumers or backward to other
workers or suppliers of business inputs. In
some circumstances, firms may reduce work
hours, such as with fixed employment costs
and worker heterogeneity, but maintain headcount. The employment and hours worked
may also be affected by wage-related changes
in employee productivity. "

then im curious , why should any nation allow someone to set up shop and do business but dont hire locals

 

[kel666]

Fine. Let me just give you this study by the CATO Institute

I do not want to go into the details on this paper. You can read it yourself. I would only write the relevant part.

It is basically very simple. You cannot discount the possibility of firms reducing their wages to the minimum.

http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA701.pdf

"In the case of a nationwide minimum wage,
large numbers of firms will be affected, albeit
by different amounts depending on the industry, region of the country, and other factors. In
addition to the mandated cost increase possibly causing employment reductions, a portion of the higher wage costs may be passed
forward to consumers or backward to other
workers or suppliers of business inputs. In
some circumstances, firms may reduce work
hours, such as with fixed employment costs
and worker heterogeneity, but maintain headcount. The employment and hours worked
may also be affected by wage-related changes
in employee productivity. "

OMG, a ******* noob. If min wages set as 1500 for those jobs>1500 how is it reducing?

Min wages is not for PMETs. Get this into ur bloody head.

 

[BioProEng]

then im curious , why should any nation allow someone to set up shop and do business but dont hire locals

Probably currently only SG allowed this to happen. If other countries, most prob govt will tell them to go.... Only SG will scold citizen, and welcome such coys

 

[Kyoji83]

I agree with you that cost is involve to take into consideration when you intend to make a move. And it does not make sense to shift your business to the next unit just because it is cheaper but have to redo stuffs like renovations & etc.

However if we are taking about a larger scale like you already expend your MNC company in another country where you already have plant, stuffs & etc in that country. Will you consider to close your business in Singapore & shift everything over to that country where your have your smooth operation there for years due to lower operation cost to bring up profit margins?

We're talking about a business here . That has operating costs.. even starting up has operation costs.

I'm running a small business now and even though i know the unit beside me is cheaper i cant just uproot and move. I'll need.to pay to set up my stuff again .renovations and stuff.
Not to mention people who can't .find me despite moving to a nearby location. I've seen that happen . Often.
Despite rental being lower. I'm unlikely to reap the benefits of moving in a few years in saving money.

Another .example is those businesses which requires complex machines . Clean rooms
one company . A giant mnc in sg set up another building to house everyone for prestige and maybe save cost as well instead of being all over the place. But just before they move they realised they need to pay the movers hundreds of thousands to move the machines ..... the same costs as buying new.
And it ended up they decided.to.stay for the remainder of the lease


And for sensitive stuff. Thailand's flood two years ago showed how important it is when the country is mismanaged for years.
One of my suppliers , another mnc who supplies the entire region had nothing to send and it really affected their business when the flood happened in thailand.

 

[Kyoji83]

Sorry, i don't understand this part.

1) Min wage is for who?

2) Are you trying to tell me that those who have mid & high skill will have a higher min wage compare to low skill?

min wage will not be for PMETs rah. Set the min wage higher than the low skilled pay overall how ish it underpaid?

And u think once the min wage is set, the amount will be the same forever?

Wonder why some ppl cannot look deep huan...

 

[Kyoji83]

If old lee start min wage from the start, investor will take this into consideration for the cost before they start a business in operation. Investor will give min wage because it is a norm & market tend. However this is not the case & I think it is too late to implement min wage. You want the employer to increase their operation cost when some of them are no earning profit or very little profit during this economic uncertainty period? Sure they will KPKB.

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If you are pay $2K for this job but when you work for awhile, they decrease your salary to $1K, sure you will KPKB & may change another job. If you pay you $1K from the start, you will not KPKB.

Which is why i say again, min wage must be accompanied by other policies .
Without a core group propellering the nation forward we'll soon sink when you let mercenaries run the nation.
Mercenaries by nature are out to draw the biggest profit regardless of results.

 

[oldbreadstinks]

If they give lower wage, people would not work for them and companies do need human resource. If there is a minimum wage, people who give lower than the minimum wage would have to increase their wages and icnrease their business costs BUT at the same time, companies who have gave more than the minimum wage can reduce it to just the minimum wage since it is deemed by the govt that we can survive with this minimum wage.

Which one do you prefer now? to be much much more than the minimum wage or just the minimum wage?

Again you pick an extreme situation and ignored our previous postings on why min wage law has to be supported by other laws. Which part of cutting off foreign labour do you not understand ?

 

[oldbreadstinks]

high turn over? that will happen everywhere

the min wage rule applies across all industries and sectors.

If i as the CEO uses the min wage system to depress the wages even lower, how do you assume the other CEOs won't?

Based on human kindness and compassion?

So, where will employees turn to? Company A? B? C? D? all giving the same wages.

Lol if you know how they pay good for nothings here ,you'll not worry about that.

Businessmen in sg aren't very united. From exp.... they'll verbal agree then try to grab man power.

With a finite manpower. Anyone who wants to expand would grab workers.
Im counting on greed and selfishness to push the pay up.

 

[oldbreadstinks]

Seriously, if you increase the wage of a cleaner at hawker center, your price of food also increase by folds...
Maybe you might say targeted group, if a worker at a food factory get a minimum wage, then the end user eventually get the effect...
Really not a good law...
In singapore, it is not practical...
This will also mean that pinoy and AT will earn more...

...the issue is the lower segment in society needs help. If for you practicality means screwing them and keeping them there while you enjoy food.

Your education and upbringing has failed you.