Will minimum wage laws work here?

[spitfirxe]

The question remains. What is stopping them from doing it now?

complete psychological reasons.

you have to think in the shoes of bosses to see where i'm coming from.

right now, there's no min wage ruling, none of that sort.

companies wont know whats the "best" wages to offer to their applicants, and they obtain this information through detailed analysis of their market, their competitors

so to attract people into their company, they differentiate their wages.

now, Boom, you give them a law to legalise min wages.

bosses will take to it like sharks smelling blood.

if all the bosses are giving the same wage, there's no incentives for people to work hard, to be motivated.

so the company's PR loses a lot. profit may start to decline.

Now, seeing their profits are declining, bosses will start to panic. Should they start to keep this min wage law, but differentiate the pay, and start offering higher pay?

Yes, they should.

But, no they will not. Many bosses will choose to relocate to neighbouring countries. There are min wages there too. but their currency is so much lower. RM800 as a min wage law in malaysia. can sg offer min wage of $300?

 

[tatsit]

i'm not using any countries as an example. but i wont extrapolate the information from other countries to singapore.

you may be right. companies will still increase pay, differentiate pay etc.

but what happens if companies retaliate by offering all the same pay to lobby against the min wage rule?

oh, they won't die off. remember? they still have min wages.

yeah, that will happen - when there is only 1 company in sg.

 

[spitfirxe]

Min wage is not an issue if influx is controlled . It would bring up the wages of those at the bottom . Hardly going to affect anyone who can get a higher pay.

We're talking about cleaners type of $5-600 a month pay. Not those getting paid 1-2k or more.
If influx is controlled , companies would not be allowed to expand wantonly. It brings a sort of level ground since you can no longer afford to splash the cash to expand with cheap labour . It would slow down increase of rent. Allowing sole proprietary businesses to compete. Manpower isnt an issue for those businesses. One man shows in the first place.
but for the larger businesses they'll either be forced to canibalise and close poor outlets for manpower or poach from other businesses driving pay up.
with a better livable pay , min wage would provide a more stable workforce who dont need to worry about their next meal. And stay long enough to improve their services.

yes, i agree, but from an employee's viewpoint.

from a boss viewpoint, I am concerned with my expansion, my growth, my profits, and it will affect me negatively. So i will want to lobby against it.

 

[tatsit]

minimum wage is curing the symptom no the root cause. the root cause is foreign competition that is depressing the wages. just cut off the root cause the wages will go up.

PAP is not gonna help the ppl. this is not a welfare society so dun bother. though the best is to tie minimum wages to basic needs. at least the old granny picking cardboards can have 3 meals and a bed.

even in the west, or other developed countries with no exorbitant influx of foreigners, their govt implements minimum wage to stop local companies from exploiting local workers.

 

[kel666]

now the market rate for cleaners= 600-800, rate for waiters= 1000-1200, rate for cashiers= 900-1100, rate for kitchen helpers= 1000, rate for admin/clerks= 1000-1300.

These are the examples tat need the min wages most.

 

[oldbreadstinks]

companies here are being spoilt by our govt, its like a person is used to eating at restaurants, do u think he/she is willing to downgrade to kopitiam?

Honestly speaking of the restaurants i went to..... 70% if not more? The food is worse than hawker food....

I find it disturbing if a $30-40 meal.... tastes worse than mac Ds

 

[Some-one]

And so you are saying that companies will not give too low a wage now because they need to attract people to work for them. True. They need to pay enough to attract people.

>> Currently it is up to market forces and yes, it can be too low as well


Meaning that you do think that there are companies now who are paying less than minimum wage. So some workers will benefit from minimum wage.

>> Yes, definitely

Yes, they can. But if the wage is not competitive, then just like your first scenario, they are forced to raise wages to the point where people will be attracted to work for them.

People are not going to magically think that a low wage is desirable just because there is a minimum wage.

>> Yes, companies can try to give more than the minimum wage to attract talents but it would be disavantageous to new employees because instead of paying a premium, companies can pay just the minimum wage. They can also give lesser increments.

 

[Okenba]

complete psychological reasons.

you have to think in the shoes of bosses to see where i'm coming from.

right now, there's no min wage ruling, none of that sort.

companies wont know whats the "best" wages to offer to their applicants, and they obtain this information through detailed analysis of their market, their competitors

so to attract people into their company, they differentiate their wages.

now, Boom, you give them a law to legalise min wages.

bosses will take to it like sharks smelling blood.

if all the bosses are giving the same wage, there's no incentives for people to work hard, to be motivated.

so the company's PR loses a lot. profit may start to decline.

Now, seeing their profits are declining, bosses will start to panic. Should they start to keep this min wage law, but differentiate the pay, and start offering higher pay?

Yes, they should.

But, no they will not. Many bosses will choose to relocate to neighbouring countries. There are min wages there too. but their currency is so much lower. RM800 as a min wage law in malaysia. can sg offer min wage of $300?

So what you're saying is that after min wage is legislated, companies will no longer need to attract people? And that they will not be able to see that people would be demotivated if they are paid much less than they are worth?

Honestly, there are real valid disadvantages to minimum wage. One very real one could be the increase in business costs due to having to pay minimum wage. This might actually lead to downsizing or could lead to a slight depressing of the wages of other workers who were previously above minimum wage.

So, yes. It is possible that minimum wage MAY depress some wages. But I don't think it will happen in the way that you are trying to describe.

 

[spitfirxe]

tat won't happen, remember most bosses are greedy. One will take advantage to hire ppl in tat situation by giving them more money, then the rest will follow.

yes they will do that,

at the same time, they will also start cutting the pay of higher earners to make up for the increase in pay of lower earners.

if that happens, people will start to jump ship. bosses will panic, and increase their pay back.

now, the overall cost is higher.

bosses are still concerned about profits. so how? increase price of final goods, which YOU, as a consumer will eventually pay.

yes, some companies will not increase prices to remain competitive. so how? either bosses llst (which will never happen), or cut costs in some other ways. lesser priveleges for employees? check. lesser medical and leave? check. etc

there's always a way which bosses will find to maintain/increase profit.

that;s the culture here.

 

[kel666]

yes, i agree, but from an employee's viewpoint.

from a boss viewpoint, I am concerned with my expansion, my growth, my profits, and it will affect me negatively. So i will want to lobby against it.

so u mean u can pull out ur business anytime? They will make more losses if they pull out. And i mean millions even for a SME.

So u want to earn less but still make a lot of money or lose millions at a time?

Remember, bosses gave themselves pay raise every single year. Maybe they should stop for one year.

 

[tatsit]

now the market rate for cleaners= 600-800, rate for waiters= 1000-1200, rate for cashiers= 900-1100, rate for kitchen helpers= 1000, rate for admin/clerks= 1000-1300.

These are the examples tat need the min wages most.

exactly. even construction workers. it is no wonder that no locals would want to work in those industries.

cost of living keeps rising like no body's business, birth rates decline, fueled with stop at 2 policy, it is just a matter of time where pure singaporeans extinct

 

[spitfirxe]

for min wages to work, the govt really need to include bosses and employees into the planning.

this will ensure both parties are satisfied, and lower possibility of system abuse.

how possible is this?..

 

[kel666]

yes they will do that,

at the same time, they will also start cutting the pay of higher earners to make up for the increase in pay of lower earners.

if that happens, people will start to jump ship. bosses will panic, and increase their pay back.

now, the overall cost is higher.

bosses are still concerned about profits. so how? increase price of final goods, which YOU, as a consumer will eventually pay.

yes, some companies will not increase prices to remain competitive. so how? either bosses llst (which will never happen), or cut costs in some other ways. lesser priveleges for employees? check. lesser medical and leave? check. etc

there's always a way which bosses will find to maintain/increase profit.

that;s the culture here.

if u can think of it, those bosses can also, so they will not let themselves to be in tat situation, and so, the things u mentioned below the red fonts won't happen.

 

[Okenba]

>> Yes, companies can try to give more than the minimum wage to attract talents but it would be disavantageous to new employees because instead of paying a premium, companies can pay just the minimum wage. They can also give lesser increments.

And therefore, if there were no minimum wage, the situation would then be:

Companies can try to give more than other companies to attract talents but it would be disavantageous to new employees because instead of paying a premium, companies can pay just whatever other companies are paying. They can also give lesser increments.

And what these other companies are paying are likely the lowest possible wage that the labour market will accept.

You know what. I'm just repeating myself. I've said my piece.

Peace.

 

[spitfirxe]

if u can think of it, those bosses can also, so they will not let themselves to be in tat situation, and so, the things u mentioned below the red fonts won't happen.

the fonts inr ed are just part of the effect.

whether it happens or not does not affect the fonts in black from happening.

 

[kel666]

exactly. even construction workers. it is no wonder that no locals would want to work in those industries.

cost of living keeps rising like no body's business, birth rates decline, fueled with stop at 2 policy, it is just a matter of time where pure singaporeans extinct

ever since the floodgate ish open, i am the minority in every job i do. The best scenerio ish out of 7 employees, there are 3 sinkies including myself.

 

[fascist]

We got no natural resources etc to support the this. Costs will go up as companies will be forced to pay workers a minimum wage per hour, everything will rise. Thoughts?

what has natural resources got to do with implementing a minimum wage?

 

[Some-one]

And therefore, if there were no minimum wage, the situation would then be:



And what these other companies are paying are likely the lowest possible wage that the labour market will accept.

You know what. I'm just repeating myself. I've said my piece.

Peace.

no. You are basically just assuming that you know the market forces. It is something which you and I cannot determine. Companies can also pay lower than the rate when no minimum wage is enforced.

 

[kel666]

the fonts inr ed are just part of the effect.

whether it happens or not does not affect the fonts in black from happening.

so wats ur point? the things u mentioned in black fonts is already happening now.

Everything can be solve if the gov decides to solve it.

 

[Okenba]

no. You are basically just assuming that you know the market forces. It is something which you and I cannot determine. Companies can also pay lower that the rate when no minimum wage is enforced.

Quote me one study. Just ONE. That describes what you and spitfirxe have been trying to describe.